Small shake through steering wheel at 60-80. When braking off freeway down the off ramp it really shakes bad. Tie rods, Wheel bearings? I can't pin point the problem. Any help would be awsome.

Could be tie rods, tires, bent rim, front rotors, wheel balance, or a combo of each. If its a tie rod you should easily be able to see and feel the play by hand. I would check the front end connections first, if its there its an immediate safety concern! You will lose all steering immediately if your tie rod disconnects. Old unevenly worn tires will also do it. One time I had worn tires and a bent rim. Does the car pull to any side either when braking or just going straight down the road?

Could Be a warped Rotor too.

Rotors are new, tire wear is even and fine one rim has a lip bend but it is in the rear passenger side.
The only time it drifts is with the slope of the road, other than that it runs pretty straight.
It is very confusing.

sounds like rotors evan though they are new the could still be warped from overheating. did you bleed the brake system when the new rotors were installed? if not than they may be applying more pressure that they usualy do and warped the rotor. the only reason i would say rotor is becaues of the shaking while braking. also check your brake pads i have seen broken pads do that.

If you bought those $49 rotors from the discount auto stores it could very well be a rotor. I quit using those a long time ago. My last rear rotor from NAPA in 04 was $102, glad to pay it as I do the job once. Of course the dealers are twice that. Please make sure its not a tie rod end.

It is not only cheap rotors that have warping problems. I have read reviews on Brembo rotors as well as the cheap ones. If you do not properly break in your new rotors the way the manufacturer instructs then it does not matter if they are Wilwood, Tokico, Brembo, whatever, they will warp. Same goes for pads.

Check the brake PADS not just the rotors. Check calipers and your wheel bearings. ie rods ends just don't really sound like the problem here. The shaking could be anything from a loose wheel (Check lug nuts make sure they are all tight) to your transaxles. Take a good look at everything in the driveline check for torn boots, clean up the joins and check for metal shavings anywhere, make sure that all zirk fittings have been greased. Wiggle any joints make sure there isn't any play in the tie rod ends and linkages, if you have access to a jack or lift get the car up and gently wiggle each wheel making sure it has no play both left to right and up and down. That should give you a good idea as to where the problem lies.

FireDoc, I never thought much about breaking in rotors. What do the mfg'r's say? I don't think I've ever seen instructions on break in. I can guess that if you go down a long hill with the new rotors on and braking or hard stand on it braking to over heat?? Anyway, I'm never hard on brakes. Did my Montero fronts at about 98K, just pads. Rotors were fine. I did my rears just after warranty I think, only because the slides seized and prematurely wore pads, Just did the rears again 114K.

What type of rotors are they? If you changed the pads with the rotors what were the pads?

Read this article, It may answer some questions. http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/tech/pad_rotor_bedin_procedures.jsp

WOW FireDoc, I've never seen such detailed instructions, never even in the rotor or pad boxes, unless I don't even bother to look. I've bookmarked the link and will pay more attention from now on. Thanks

I rot the rotors from Autozone. Got them at the same time to make sure that they were the same spent about $50 per. Replaced the pads at the same time and did a caliper overhaul seals and clean up.
The warped rotor would not account for the shake at highway speed. It is just brought out upon breaking on off ramps. I try not to be so hard on the brakes. Why do they not give you info on the breaking in rotors when they sell them to you. I really am in the wrong business.
I will check the boots next and as a point of saftey replace the tie rod ends.
I am due to rotate the tires next month but will figure this problem out first.

Thanks to all for the info and help with this issue I will keep you posted.

The reason they don't give you break in instructions is cuz it's not a real necessity for one and 2 they expect that the parts will be installed at a shop not a private residence (Our #1 supplier of parts we don't have on hand is Pep Boys). And I doubt the rotors are your problem. as you sayt it shakes down the road at higher speeds. Does it pull left or right when driving at any speeds? And have you checked all lugs recently? (I had that problem once. Someone loosened all the lugs on one wheel ate up the nuts and beat the studs to hell. Ended up having to replace the whole knuckle.)

Rotor break-in is important to those of us who want our rotors to last more than one pad change.

It drifts with the road slope left or right but not too bad. The lugs are all good, I did have that happen on one of my back wheels once kids or something must have thought it would be funny to try to kill me.

1. Grab the top of the front tire and try to rock it back and forth to see if your wheel bearings are worn out.

2. Get your tires balanced.

Interesting about the various break-in procedures. Here is the procedure from the Bendix web site.

A series of controlled moderate speed stops (15-20 Stops from 30-mph w/30 sec cool down) is required to properly "burnish" or break-in a new set of pads. During this initial stopping period, the process of lining transfer from the disc pads to the rotor surface helps condition the rotor surface to properly seat the brake pads. All pads are cured and all pads need to be burnished.

Replaced the tie rod ends and took care of some of the shake but not all of it.
No play in the bearings so what next? Noticed the steering bushings are a little worn.
** Is there any adjustment in the rack and pinion unit on a 93? something to take up any gear play or slop?

dose it only pull when accleration or dose it just pull is it to the road slope or just to one side? how bad is the slope in the road?

ORIGINAL: FireDoc

Could Be a warped Rotor too.


If it were a warped rotor it would shake the entire time you applied the brakes. Not at just a certian speed.

are you saying that it shakes when cruising at 60-80 AND also when braking off the freeway, or just braking between 60-80? If it shakes when just cruising between 60-80 check your alignment

make sure if you do alignment to do a 4 wheel it may cost a little more than a 2 wheel but it may never be right unless it is done.

The drift occures at any slope drainage slope just a very slight slope twards the shoulder of the road.
Rotated the tires front to back and still the small amount of shake. You can feel it in the steering wheel and a little on the floor.
It is for sur coming from the front end. Had the rotors cut not out by only .002 now they are straight.
Still the same it has to be some kind of play in the steering or stabilizer??
I am very confused but don't want to be replacing everything.

it may be that the toe angle of the tires is out or in causing a skae and a possable pulling when on an slight angle i would take it in an see what a tire shop like big o tires will tell ya usuly they can tell if teh toe angle is out by looking at it or they might tell you if it is out for free and than charge u for the fix.

I'll have to take it to a tires plus they seem to do a good job and tell you before doing any work.
This gives you the option to do it yourself and bring it back for the final alignment.

Still a sloppy drift when steering. Having to correct for the slop.

what did they fix at the tire place?

They did a front end alignment. But it still feels like the car is going to come out from under me. seems like a sway from side to side.
Going only about 10 mph around a corner the tires squeel???
The tires have the correct tire pressure. Everything is tight lugs that is.
I am at a complete loss!!!
Too much side to side sway feels like you are going to loose control.

so you did not get a 4wheel alignment?

Wow well this is an OLD thread brought back up. So you got an alignment and still haven't fixed the problem? Is there any change from the original problem? A bent rim could lend to the problem and not necessarily be visible (I have a bent rim that you'd NEVER know it was bent until you tried to balance it). But you SHOULD notice a bent rim at ALL speeds (Mine shook the car bad enough that I thought it was gonna fall apart). If you had a full 4 wheel alignment then you need to start looking into other problems. Obviously it's not brakes cuz the brakes aren't involved in normal highway driving when you are feeling it. Possibly check tie rod ends and the wheel bearing. Check the tires for abnormal wear now that you have a bit more mileage on the vehicle. You may not have been able to notice the wear previously due to the problem being new. Hopefully this helps a bit in some abscure way.

it may just be me but if you had a front end only alignment that the problem can still be the alighnment of all four wheels.

Yeah that's why we need to know if it was a 4 wheel alignment or just a 2 wheel.

4 wheel alighnment. Front wheel bearings feel good no play. Tires plus said they are still solid as well
Tie rod ends are new. what about bushings? Are there any bushings that once worn could cause this problem
Rims are straight. tire wear is good and even

are the tries ballanced are the weights still on them? do they have any inperfections susch as bubbles bluges anything?

The Tires have all the weights on them and no bulges in the side wall or anywhere else.
I had heard bushings, sway bar and control arm bushings.
Does this sound like it may be a cause?

just so you guys know, a warped rotor CAN cause the car to shake at cruising speeds(above 60). if it was me, i would replace the rotors with higher quality rotors(check out Powerslot). not only as a way to *maybe* cure the shaking, but higher quality rotors won't warp as easily as the autozone ones.

you said that the tires are worn evenly. just how worn are the tires? are they fairly new, ok to drive on, or on their last leg?

i belev he already checked the roters.

Well so far I think we've covered all the bases available. The car hasn't been in any previous accidents has it? I had a Sundance that I hit a deer then a ditch with that the problems didn't become evident until 2 months down the line when the K frame snapped and almost sent me off the side of an overpass onto the freeway below.

No accidents. Tires have approx. 8,000 perelli the car is a summer car so it never sees the snow or cold.
I just dont want to buy $$$$ worth of rotors and still end up with a shake the rotors are not far out ground within .002
That should not cause the problems I am seeing. There is plenty of meat left onthe tires at least one more season.

Well you've definately got me baffled. I can't think of anyhing else that would cause that kind of problem. Do the pads have even wear? And are they still attached well to the backing plates?

hes got me too

I'd say if he knows someone that has a true flat block (I can't remember what exactly they're called but they're used for determining warpage and whatnot in low tolerance applications) I'd say take the rotors off and check all 4 of them. Also check the brake calipers maybe one of them isn't working right? Check the pistons on the calipers see if they're cocking when coming out. Possibly check the bolts that hold the caliper in place? Those are the last things I can guess...

ORIGINAL: Nuggethead 420

No accidents. Tires have approx. 8,000 perelli the car is a summer car so it never sees the snow or cold.
I just dont want to buy $$$$ worth of rotors and still end up with a shake the rotors are not far out ground within .002
That should not cause the problems I am seeing. There is plenty of meat left onthe tires at least one more season.

so why dont you spend 20-30 and get the front rototrs turned?

Most places now a days won't turn rotors. At least not new rotors because the new rotors are made witha softer metal. I read an article in a magazine once about this. When they stopped using asbestos in brake pads they had to use a softer metal for the rotors to stop the squealing when you hit the brakes. So instead of turning rotors they just recommend replacing them.

any macine shop will do it i just had mine done on a 4 runner they said as long as the roters are thick enogh they will do it. 15 a roter.

We never turned rotors but then again with the safety inspections here they're pretty strict on rotor thickness and most people don't bother thinking about rotors until it's too late.

dont get me wrong i suggest he gets new ones but just to see if they are the problem here do this go to a junk yard and get a pair that look stright see if they work if the shake stops or just turn those ones.

Now that's a good idea. I hadn't thought about snagging a pair from a junkyard and trying them.

The rotor were ground here at work. Big machine shop and it helps to be tight with the machinists, and be a former turned design engineer. So every body is focused on the rotors. Why that They are ground and run true by the indicator.
Is that they only componant on the front end? does anyone know about the bushing situation on the front or has no one ever had any problems with that in the past?
Any steering lash adjust or other variables that would cause a similar condition?

have you checked the half shafts? it maybe that one of the joints that is under the rubber boots is or has gon out so bad it is causing a lot of front end shake.

ORIGINAL: Nuggethead 420

The rotor were ground here at work. Big machine shop and it helps to be tight with the machinists, and be a former turned design engineer. So every body is focused on the rotors. Why that They are ground and run true by the indicator.
Is that they only componant on the front end? does anyone know about the bushing situation on the front or has no one ever had any problems with that in the past?
Any steering lash adjust or other variables that would cause a similar condition?

also by ground what are yo refering to like a grinder or a milling machine?

Yeah check your transaxles and see if the CV joints are good or not. I've never heard of a bushing causing shakes like that. But you can check the sway bar bushings (Those would be the only ones I could think of). Wait a sec.... you don't feel any hard jerks when you start or stop moving do you?? That COULD possibly indicate a motor or trans mount? Maybe something like the engine being torqued out of place and throwing things off balance? Just trying to think out of the box now because we've combed over EVERYTHING so far in the front end's wheel section.

Last night was digging deep under the front end and found something. Picked at the bushings. Found the control arm bushings in very poor condition. The drivers side one was actually split. I am going to try to replace them any advice for this would help. I am also going to replace the ball joint while I am doing the whole teard apart.

Is the control arm in tension? I really don't neet something breaking loose that I'm going to have a problem putting back.

Thanks,

Nuggethead 420

No the control arm is NOT under tension. And was the ball joint a known problem before or was it something extra you found when you were checking the bushings?

Also reading the Haynes (Yes I know it's a rather vague manual) book it says that if there is any play apparent in the ball joint when prying on the control arm the entire arm must be replaced.
Now I'm not sure if it's REALLY that bad but just giving you a heads up there.

The ball joints have never been replaced so I figure while I have it apart it would not hurt. Not really any more work.
The whole parts bill is about $120.00 my labor is free. I have the haynes ant your right it is very vague but better than nothing.
It seems to coner more on the all wheel than the 2 wheel.

Yeah it definately does. Though I'm fairly sure the control arm isn't under tension still use caution playing around in that area. (I've seen some NASTY shyt happen cuz of shocks).