1g balance shaft
#41
11-21-2006, 11:11 PM
RE: 1g balance shaft
ORIGINAL: wb12859
listen to the brewmaster, the engine likes the BS and you will not gain any performance. DO NOT listen to the crap on ebay. There is a reason they are there.
listen to the brewmaster, the engine likes the BS and you will not gain any performance. DO NOT listen to the crap on ebay. There is a reason they are there.
#43
11-21-2006, 11:42 PM
RE: 1g balance shaft
ORIGINAL: Manybrews
the thing is that they wouldnt need to be replaced during a rebuild. they seldom suffer any type of wear whatsoever, unless neglected. At which time you will have other issues with the motor.
the thing is that they wouldnt need to be replaced during a rebuild. they seldom suffer any type of wear whatsoever, unless neglected. At which time you will have other issues with the motor.
ORIGINAL: Manybrews
a balance shaft wont "break" unless something horrible happens to an engine such as oil starvation. At which time the engine is already trash anyway.
a balance shaft wont "break" unless something horrible happens to an engine such as oil starvation. At which time the engine is already trash anyway.
ORIGINAL: Manybrews
once again, they only break if neglected... meaning either someone hasnt changed his timing belt at correct intervals, or something to that extent. incidently, the balance belt usually lasts much longer than the main belt.
once again, they only break if neglected... meaning either someone hasnt changed his timing belt at correct intervals, or something to that extent. incidently, the balance belt usually lasts much longer than the main belt.
ORIGINAL: Manybrews
on a race only car, remove whatever you want. the thing is, 99 percent of the cars here will spend more time sitting in traffic than racing. And to that extent its a waste to throw away well engineered items like PS, AC, and balance shafts, all of which make sitting in traffic a LOT nicer.
on a race only car, remove whatever you want. the thing is, 99 percent of the cars here will spend more time sitting in traffic than racing. And to that extent its a waste to throw away well engineered items like PS, AC, and balance shafts, all of which make sitting in traffic a LOT nicer.
ORIGINAL: Manybrews
the balance shafts have no effect at idle. they come into play at higher RPMs. You wont notice them at idle at all, as there isnt enough inertia from the crank, pistons, or balance shafts to toss the engine about much at all. Its at the higher frequencies and amplitudes that the balance shafts come into play.
the balance shafts have no effect at idle. they come into play at higher RPMs. You wont notice them at idle at all, as there isnt enough inertia from the crank, pistons, or balance shafts to toss the engine about much at all. Its at the higher frequencies and amplitudes that the balance shafts come into play.
ORIGINAL: Manybrews
you're talking about a situation in which something has already suffered a catastrophic failure. Im talking about situations in which people just yank them out without reason (although I never assemble an engine without them, regardless of what has happened unless directly asked to not do so).
you're talking about a situation in which something has already suffered a catastrophic failure. Im talking about situations in which people just yank them out without reason (although I never assemble an engine without them, regardless of what has happened unless directly asked to not do so).
I think you miss what most people are doing when they remove the BS. It's all about preventive maintenaince, you have to understand that when someone spends the money to have a motor "ready" for higher boost, they aren't going to leave that BS, the motor can be balanced to keep the vibration down, if that's such an issue for built motor owners. How do you know that the BS belt that was bought wasn't built on a Friday, at 4:30pm? If you're old enough or have heard this before, you know what I'm saying.
As you may already know, engineers are only people, they make mistakes, bad decisions, wrong decisions, and cover up previous mistakes. The people that chose to remove their BS a long time ago, didn't do it to break the motor, they did it to prevent having to spend more money than they have to when that catastrophic failure happens (I understand that the BS isn't what you are referring to).
These are the arguements of this procedure, so just like you, I take them with a grain of salt.
#44
11-21-2006, 11:48 PM
RE: 1g balance shaft
ORIGINAL: wb12859
less moving parts for racing, two less things to deal with when you rebuild after so many races. When it comes to street cars I wouldn't sacrafice the longitivity of the engine.
less moving parts for racing, two less things to deal with when you rebuild after so many races. When it comes to street cars I wouldn't sacrafice the longitivity of the engine.
The second part however; this is assuming that throughout the motor's lifespan that it will always be at stock form then, correct? If not, longitivity is already shortened as soon as you start it up, after that bigger turbo is put on or after the boost has been turned up.....
#45
11-22-2006, 02:36 PM
RE: 1g balance shaft
in theory, balance shafts prolong engine life, sorry, this isnt theory- this is earth
4 cylinders shake at certain RPMs, its their nature
a honda vibrates the dash so bad at idle you cant hardly read it, thats what they were trying to elimintae with the balance shaft in a mitsu engine, but its become a well known weak link to trash a perfectly good engine
4 cylinders shake at certain RPMs, its their nature
a honda vibrates the dash so bad at idle you cant hardly read it, thats what they were trying to elimintae with the balance shaft in a mitsu engine, but its become a well known weak link to trash a perfectly good engine
#46
11-22-2006, 06:32 PM
RE: 1g balance shaft
ORIGINAL: Sanguinius
Actually that chain WAS at the correct tension. That guy just recent redid the majority of the engine. I know that's a 2.6L Starion engine as I myself drive a Conquest (Or I will once I finish putting it back together again which isn't going to happen till I finish the engine bay painting after the blasted noreaster flows through here). But now you understand my disdain and general hatred for the evil balance shafts. I'll never have to worry about a maladjusted guide or a weak link again.
Actually that chain WAS at the correct tension. That guy just recent redid the majority of the engine. I know that's a 2.6L Starion engine as I myself drive a Conquest (Or I will once I finish putting it back together again which isn't going to happen till I finish the engine bay painting after the blasted noreaster flows through here). But now you understand my disdain and general hatred for the evil balance shafts. I'll never have to worry about a maladjusted guide or a weak link again.
#47
11-22-2006, 06:41 PM
RE: 1g balance shaft
ORIGINAL: silvercoupe97
you contradict yourself on this, since you just added that the BS can make sitting in traffic a LOT nicer, also, at WOT, my car is very smooth and is quiet (up front, not around back, lol).
you contradict yourself on this, since you just added that the BS can make sitting in traffic a LOT nicer, also, at WOT, my car is very smooth and is quiet (up front, not around back, lol).
If that catatastrophic failure happens to have been caused by the BS, by one of the non-perfect world variables, I would be very ticked off to not have spent the $45 for preventive maintenaince procedures. The motor doesn't "need" it to run, the motor won't be hurt to not have it. In life there will always be "what if" questions. I will always err on the side of caution, as you trust what someone tells you and call it a day (nothing wrong with that).
besides, balance shafts don't just fail. Almost no part of an engine just "fails" on any car these days. I guarantee there's ALWAYS a reason for it, and its almost always neglect.
I do not feel sorry for people that break timing belts at 120K then blame "the damn balance shafts" when the maintenance schedual obviously calls for replacement before that.
I think you miss what most people are doing when they remove the BS. It's all about preventive maintenaince, you have to understand that when someone spends the money to have a motor "ready" for higher boost, they aren't going to leave that BS, the motor can be balanced to keep the vibration down, if that's such an issue for built motor owners. How do you know that the BS belt that was bought wasn't built on a Friday, at 4:30pm? If you're old enough or have heard this before, you know what I'm saying.
As you may already know, engineers are only people, they make mistakes, bad decisions, wrong decisions, and cover up previous mistakes. The people that chose to remove their BS a long time ago, didn't do it to break the motor, they did it to prevent having to spend more money than they have to when that catastrophic failure happens (I understand that the BS isn't what you are referring to).
These are the arguements of this procedure, so just like you, I take them with a grain of salt.
These are the arguements of this procedure, so just like you, I take them with a grain of salt.
#48
11-22-2006, 11:56 PM
RE: 1g balance shaft
Exactly. To each his own. We can argue both ways until the world ends BUT in the end it'll all be up to personal preference. One may like the BS in there another may not. Me and silver obviously don't care for the BS's and have thus removed them. Many has decided he likes them and therefore continues to run them. There is no detrimental performance to having or not having them except weight and rotating mass. Those characteristics can again be argued all day long. Bottom line is that each person has to choose whether they want theirs in or not.
Opinions are fine but what I get defensive about is providing erroneous information. I don't remember who said it but someone said not having the BS installed would cause the engine to shake itself apart. This is in NO way true in even the SLIGHTEST. There is a reason the manufacturer provides a torque spec for EVERY bolt installed in a car's engine and transmission. Every nut, screw, bolt, and even hose clamps ALL have torque specs so that they WON'T be shaken off the engine. I would just like to lay that runor to rest right now before it goes any further.
Otherwise it's all preference in whether you keep them or not. Do research and see what differences there are between having them and not and make an educated decision on whether you would like to keep them or not. That's my advise right there. But if you DO keep them, since the belt has already failed once, CHECK THE BEARINGS. Since you'll be that deep in anyways might as well make sure they are 100%.
Opinions are fine but what I get defensive about is providing erroneous information. I don't remember who said it but someone said not having the BS installed would cause the engine to shake itself apart. This is in NO way true in even the SLIGHTEST. There is a reason the manufacturer provides a torque spec for EVERY bolt installed in a car's engine and transmission. Every nut, screw, bolt, and even hose clamps ALL have torque specs so that they WON'T be shaken off the engine. I would just like to lay that runor to rest right now before it goes any further.
Otherwise it's all preference in whether you keep them or not. Do research and see what differences there are between having them and not and make an educated decision on whether you would like to keep them or not. That's my advise right there. But if you DO keep them, since the belt has already failed once, CHECK THE BEARINGS. Since you'll be that deep in anyways might as well make sure they are 100%.
#49
11-23-2006, 08:00 AM
RE: 1g balance shaft
That was a great discussion on the BS and I hope anyone looking in can learn from both sides because, both sides has valid points IMO.
That was what Sang basically said...I just summerized, lol.
That was what Sang basically said...I just summerized, lol.
#50
11-24-2006, 07:32 PM
RE: 1g balance shaft
ORIGINAL: Sanguinius
Opinions are fine but what I get defensive about is providing erroneous information. I don't remember who said it but someone said not having the BS installed would cause the engine to shake itself apart. This is in NO way true in even the SLIGHTEST. There is a reason the manufacturer provides a torque spec for EVERY bolt installed in a car's engine and transmission. Every nut, screw, bolt, and even hose clamps ALL have torque specs so that they WON'T be shaken off the engine. I would just like to lay that runor to rest right now before it goes any further.
Opinions are fine but what I get defensive about is providing erroneous information. I don't remember who said it but someone said not having the BS installed would cause the engine to shake itself apart. This is in NO way true in even the SLIGHTEST. There is a reason the manufacturer provides a torque spec for EVERY bolt installed in a car's engine and transmission. Every nut, screw, bolt, and even hose clamps ALL have torque specs so that they WON'T be shaken off the engine. I would just like to lay that runor to rest right now before it goes any further.
also, ive seen intake manifolds break from the increased vibration level.
will the entire thing unscrew itself into a hundred different pieces? Of course not. But the vibration level does cause things to fatigue prematurely.