mod timeline HELP!!!
#1
08-17-2005, 12:56 PM
mod timeline HELP!!!
Hey everybody, im pretty new here, and im askin for your help. I have a 99 Eclipse GS 10th edition (that's a 420A engine), and im looking for a mod timeline, i've already got my kit on it, CF hood, a decent system to hold me over, and im getting my dual exhaust done sometime next week. but after that... i have NO idea what to do next. so im looking for a timeline of mods to do to my car, EX: exhaust - "brand recomendation", pulley system - "brand recomendation", clutch - ", turbo - " psi, brand, stage... and things like that... so can you fellow "eclipse'ers" help me??
#2
08-17-2005, 01:41 PM
RE: mod timeline HELP!!!
as for a timeline i cannot help ya there but here is a site for good brands of parts for a 420a.
http://www.dsmtuner.com/parts/default.php?cPath=86
http://www.dsmtuner.com/parts/default.php?cPath=86
#6
08-17-2005, 05:46 PM
RE: mod timeline HELP!!!
POWER STAGES
This is a list of naturally aspirated modifications that can be done to improve the power output of your car. They are organized into stages where initial modifications are the most effective for improving power early on and are needed to support the mods in higher stages. Mods generally get tougher as you go up in stages, but not always. Some easy to perform mods are in high stages since they have little or no effect until other mods are performed first.
cost: Approximate price range (from cheapest to most expensive cost) of the modification, not including any labor charges for the installation.
aprox. HP: Rough estimate of PEAK wheel HP gains with this mod, dependent upon supporting mods and other conditions, determined wherever possible by 2GNT members who have dynoed their cars before and after the modification was done. Estimates get less accurate for the highest stages.
¼ mile improvement: Approx. improvement in ¼ mile time with this mod, dependent upon weather conditions, tuning, supporting mods, driver experience, and other conditions. The estimate is determined by 2GNT members who have raced their cars at the drag strip before and after installing the modification (and ONLY that modification).
difficulty: rating system from 1 to 5 for the difficulty of the installation
1. A drunken monkey could do this mod.
2. A bit more challenging but still very possible for a beginner, should not take very long.
3. Need some experience to perform this mod but it won't take too long, OR mod is very time consuming but not really difficult (just bolting and unbolting). In either case an extra hand would probably be a good idea.
4. Tough one to do yourself. You’ll most likely need someone to help out. You need to know what you are doing or you could mess stuff up, and it will take a very long to accomplish.
5. Take it to a shop unless you are an expert or have expert/experienced help. It will take forever to finish and you’ll need someone to help you.
stage 1:
exhaust
cost $40-$600
difficulty 2
approx. wheel HP: 5
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.1 to 0.15 sec
comment: Essential to reduce restriction in exhaust. A muffler from a GS-T is the least expensive replacement and very effective, but a larger diameter cat back would be a better choice if you plan on extensive naturally aspirated modifications (i.e. stage 5-6) and essential if your long term plans are to buy a turbo or nitrous kit.
intake
cost $50-$250
difficulty 1
approx. wheel HP: 8-12
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.15-0.3 sec
comment: Replaces the extremely restrictive stock air box. Price, and power increase, ranges from a cone filter on the end of the stock intake tube, to short ram intakes, to a cold air setup. A cold air intake is easily the most effective intake to get, but be careful of ingesting water into the engine. You could, of course, build your own intake out of custom piping.
stage 2:
UDP
cost $160-$200
difficulty 3
approx. wheel HP: 5-8
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.1 sec
comment: Reduces the drag of the accessories on the engine (A/C, power steering, alternator). Very effective modification that improves power over the entire RPM range.
Header
cost $200-$450
difficulty 2
approx. wheel HP: 1-2 at high RPMS, much more at low RPMS
approx. ¼ mile improvement: typically none
comment: A header reduces some restriction in your exhaust path, but more importantly tunes your car’s exhaust to provide power at certain points in the RPM range. Typically a header does not add very much top end power to our cars and does little, if anything, for the ¼ mile. But, a header is still an effective modification since it does add significant low end power which helps to greatly improve performance on the street. A header could prove more effective for drag racing and top end power with a VERY short runner design and with more extensive modifications.
stage 3:
intake manifold
cost: $0-$450
difficulty: 3 for installation, 3 if you try to port it yourself, very time consuming to do yourself
approx. wheel HP: 5-8
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.1-0.15 sec
comment: Intake manifold work improves airflow through our intake manifolds (which have very long runners with a sand cast finish), yielding more top end power. A port and polish job is typically much cheaper than a manifold that has been Extrude Honed and should give similar results, especially if you do it yourself.
SAFC – Super Air Flow Converter
Cost: $200-$310
Difficulty: 3
approx. wheel HP: 8
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.15 sec
comment: A SAFC will allow control of the air/fuel mixture. With proper tuning some significant gains can be made with a SAFC, but improper tuning can cause serious engine damage. A standalone computer at this point might be a better idea if you plan on some very SERIOUS modifications in the future.
after market computer (instead of SAFC) – (typically an AFX race computer)
Cost: $370-$500
Difficulty: 1 for plug and play computer
approx. wheel HP: 10-15
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.20 or possibly more
comment: An after market computer will improve the car’s air/fuel mixture and ignition timing, improving power without the guesswork of tuning a SAFC. While it has the advantages of ease of installation and it does not need to be tuned (which is probably perfect for most people); certain applications might require the tuning ability of an SAFC. A standalone computer at this point might be a better idea if you plan on some very SERIOUS modifications in the future. Some specific valve train upgrades might be needed to handle repeated use at the higher than stock rev limiter provided by an aftermarket computer.
stage 4:
high flow catalytic converter or test pipe
cost: $50-$200
difficulty: 2
approx. wheel HP: 2-5
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.05-0.1 sec
comment: Reduces (or removes completely) the restriction in the exhaust caused by the catalytic converter. Not a very effective modification if done before this stage. A test pipe is cheaper than a high flow cat and will give noticeably more power, but is illegal on the street.
cam gears
cost: $250-$300
difficulty: 4
approx. wheel HP: 6-8
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.1 sec
comment: Tuning of stock camshafts with adjustable cam gears can give a noticeable power increase, but needs to be tuned on a dyno to be most effective. The cam gears can actually be tuned to give you top end power or low end power. They are difficult to install, so make sure you know what you are doing before hand. They are essential later on if you are changing your camshafts to after market ones.
throttle body
cost: $0-$100
difficulty: 1, 5 if you bore it yourself
approx. wheel HP: 5
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.1 sec if used with a cold air intake and a ported/polished intake manifold
comment: Reduces restriction caused by throttle body and increases power in the upper RPM range. It also greatly increases throttle response. Can be done much earlier than stage 4 if you desire more throttle response, but typically does not improve HP much until other supporting mods are in place. This is because improvements to other parts of your intake path earlier on are more effective, as the throttle body isn’t the major restriction in the intake path.
stage 5:
standalone computer
cost: $1000-$2000 or more
difficulty: 1 plug and play system, 4 wire in yourself
approx. wheel HP: 15-20 or more, depending on other mods and tuning
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.25 sec possibly more
comment: Used instead of a SAFC or an after market computer for ultimate control of the car’s fuel and timing maps. Must be tuned precisely and thoroughly to be effective or engine damage can occur. Essential for some turb
This is a list of naturally aspirated modifications that can be done to improve the power output of your car. They are organized into stages where initial modifications are the most effective for improving power early on and are needed to support the mods in higher stages. Mods generally get tougher as you go up in stages, but not always. Some easy to perform mods are in high stages since they have little or no effect until other mods are performed first.
cost: Approximate price range (from cheapest to most expensive cost) of the modification, not including any labor charges for the installation.
aprox. HP: Rough estimate of PEAK wheel HP gains with this mod, dependent upon supporting mods and other conditions, determined wherever possible by 2GNT members who have dynoed their cars before and after the modification was done. Estimates get less accurate for the highest stages.
¼ mile improvement: Approx. improvement in ¼ mile time with this mod, dependent upon weather conditions, tuning, supporting mods, driver experience, and other conditions. The estimate is determined by 2GNT members who have raced their cars at the drag strip before and after installing the modification (and ONLY that modification).
difficulty: rating system from 1 to 5 for the difficulty of the installation
1. A drunken monkey could do this mod.
2. A bit more challenging but still very possible for a beginner, should not take very long.
3. Need some experience to perform this mod but it won't take too long, OR mod is very time consuming but not really difficult (just bolting and unbolting). In either case an extra hand would probably be a good idea.
4. Tough one to do yourself. You’ll most likely need someone to help out. You need to know what you are doing or you could mess stuff up, and it will take a very long to accomplish.
5. Take it to a shop unless you are an expert or have expert/experienced help. It will take forever to finish and you’ll need someone to help you.
stage 1:
exhaust
cost $40-$600
difficulty 2
approx. wheel HP: 5
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.1 to 0.15 sec
comment: Essential to reduce restriction in exhaust. A muffler from a GS-T is the least expensive replacement and very effective, but a larger diameter cat back would be a better choice if you plan on extensive naturally aspirated modifications (i.e. stage 5-6) and essential if your long term plans are to buy a turbo or nitrous kit.
intake
cost $50-$250
difficulty 1
approx. wheel HP: 8-12
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.15-0.3 sec
comment: Replaces the extremely restrictive stock air box. Price, and power increase, ranges from a cone filter on the end of the stock intake tube, to short ram intakes, to a cold air setup. A cold air intake is easily the most effective intake to get, but be careful of ingesting water into the engine. You could, of course, build your own intake out of custom piping.
stage 2:
UDP
cost $160-$200
difficulty 3
approx. wheel HP: 5-8
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.1 sec
comment: Reduces the drag of the accessories on the engine (A/C, power steering, alternator). Very effective modification that improves power over the entire RPM range.
Header
cost $200-$450
difficulty 2
approx. wheel HP: 1-2 at high RPMS, much more at low RPMS
approx. ¼ mile improvement: typically none
comment: A header reduces some restriction in your exhaust path, but more importantly tunes your car’s exhaust to provide power at certain points in the RPM range. Typically a header does not add very much top end power to our cars and does little, if anything, for the ¼ mile. But, a header is still an effective modification since it does add significant low end power which helps to greatly improve performance on the street. A header could prove more effective for drag racing and top end power with a VERY short runner design and with more extensive modifications.
stage 3:
intake manifold
cost: $0-$450
difficulty: 3 for installation, 3 if you try to port it yourself, very time consuming to do yourself
approx. wheel HP: 5-8
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.1-0.15 sec
comment: Intake manifold work improves airflow through our intake manifolds (which have very long runners with a sand cast finish), yielding more top end power. A port and polish job is typically much cheaper than a manifold that has been Extrude Honed and should give similar results, especially if you do it yourself.
SAFC – Super Air Flow Converter
Cost: $200-$310
Difficulty: 3
approx. wheel HP: 8
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.15 sec
comment: A SAFC will allow control of the air/fuel mixture. With proper tuning some significant gains can be made with a SAFC, but improper tuning can cause serious engine damage. A standalone computer at this point might be a better idea if you plan on some very SERIOUS modifications in the future.
after market computer (instead of SAFC) – (typically an AFX race computer)
Cost: $370-$500
Difficulty: 1 for plug and play computer
approx. wheel HP: 10-15
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.20 or possibly more
comment: An after market computer will improve the car’s air/fuel mixture and ignition timing, improving power without the guesswork of tuning a SAFC. While it has the advantages of ease of installation and it does not need to be tuned (which is probably perfect for most people); certain applications might require the tuning ability of an SAFC. A standalone computer at this point might be a better idea if you plan on some very SERIOUS modifications in the future. Some specific valve train upgrades might be needed to handle repeated use at the higher than stock rev limiter provided by an aftermarket computer.
stage 4:
high flow catalytic converter or test pipe
cost: $50-$200
difficulty: 2
approx. wheel HP: 2-5
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.05-0.1 sec
comment: Reduces (or removes completely) the restriction in the exhaust caused by the catalytic converter. Not a very effective modification if done before this stage. A test pipe is cheaper than a high flow cat and will give noticeably more power, but is illegal on the street.
cam gears
cost: $250-$300
difficulty: 4
approx. wheel HP: 6-8
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.1 sec
comment: Tuning of stock camshafts with adjustable cam gears can give a noticeable power increase, but needs to be tuned on a dyno to be most effective. The cam gears can actually be tuned to give you top end power or low end power. They are difficult to install, so make sure you know what you are doing before hand. They are essential later on if you are changing your camshafts to after market ones.
throttle body
cost: $0-$100
difficulty: 1, 5 if you bore it yourself
approx. wheel HP: 5
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.1 sec if used with a cold air intake and a ported/polished intake manifold
comment: Reduces restriction caused by throttle body and increases power in the upper RPM range. It also greatly increases throttle response. Can be done much earlier than stage 4 if you desire more throttle response, but typically does not improve HP much until other supporting mods are in place. This is because improvements to other parts of your intake path earlier on are more effective, as the throttle body isn’t the major restriction in the intake path.
stage 5:
standalone computer
cost: $1000-$2000 or more
difficulty: 1 plug and play system, 4 wire in yourself
approx. wheel HP: 15-20 or more, depending on other mods and tuning
approx. ¼ mile improvement: 0.25 sec possibly more
comment: Used instead of a SAFC or an after market computer for ultimate control of the car’s fuel and timing maps. Must be tuned precisely and thoroughly to be effective or engine damage can occur. Essential for some turb
#7
08-17-2005, 08:59 PM
RE: mod timeline HELP!!!
Just a question but why dual exhaust?
the reason im going w/ the dual exhauset is because my body kit rear bumper has 2 slots for mufflers and i can't stand when you are driving down the road and you see 2 openings and only 2 used.
do you have any idea in which direction you want to head? do you have mechanical ability?
im lookin for straight speed off the line, and as quick of acceleration at high speeds as i can.
that last post is what im lookin for, so thank you for that, and i'll use the previous site to decide which parts and brands to use.
the reason im going w/ the dual exhauset is because my body kit rear bumper has 2 slots for mufflers and i can't stand when you are driving down the road and you see 2 openings and only 2 used.
do you have any idea in which direction you want to head? do you have mechanical ability?
im lookin for straight speed off the line, and as quick of acceleration at high speeds as i can.
that last post is what im lookin for, so thank you for that, and i'll use the previous site to decide which parts and brands to use.
#8
08-18-2005, 10:09 AM
RE: mod timeline HELP!!!
quick question, in the timeline i was given in the previous post, it doesn't list a turbo anywhere, and also, if you get a turbo kit it comes with it's own cold air intake, downpipe, and manifold. so does this mean if i get the turbo kit i don't have to get these as upgrades????? also WHEN are you suposed to put a kit in, befor or after these upgrades listed??? also does anybody have any suggestions on which kit to get? i've been looking at the STAR Stage II but it says that that only puts out 5 PSI now looking at some other people's on here that seems like a really small number... (and sorry for sounding stupid but what is psi? what does it do? and how do you regulate it?) more help please