Oil leaking on alt, replaced 3 so far! Shouldn't my mechanic seen this & fixed it?
#1
11-27-2017, 06:16 PM
Oil leaking on alt, replaced 3 so far! Shouldn't my mechanic seen this & fixed it?
Ok, so i have 2 mechanics, one has a shop DIRECTLY across the street from my house, i can literally see it from my front door so its extremely convenient if/when my 99' Montero Sport acts up and the 2nd mechanic is not in town (the 2nd mechanic is actually my main mechanic, he is an ex that I remained good friends with and he doesn't charge me labor, (i buy the parts & he puts them in) in exchange for letting him stay at my house when he comes to town on business) but he lives in Las Vegas (i'm in Phoenix) and is only in town for a week every month, which is when he stays at my house and saves money on hotel costs (not sure if the labor on repairs to my vehicle is equal to the cost of a hotel room for a week every month bcuz my vehicle doesn't break down every month, but it's the deal we made so i dont pay out the *** in auto repairs and he doesn't pay out the *** in hotel costs. If my vehicle happens to break down when he's in Vegas and I am not able to wait 3 weeks for his return, I take it to the shop across the street from my house which saves on towing charges bcuz i can literally push it over there by myself if i have to. (Sorry for the lengthy intro but i feel i needed to explain the 2 mechanic thing so what i am about to ask makes sense)
Ok so I recently had the mechanic at the shop across the street put in a rebuilt transmission and while doing that, he noticed that my water pump pipe was going out. When i picked up the vehicle he told me that it would need to be replaced soon but that i still had some time and said just dont take it on long trips before getting it done. He said it would run about $200 (not sure if that price included parts AND labor but once i learned that a water pump pipe cost $205, im guessing that that price didnt include labor)
about a month later the pipe gave out in my parking space and water gushout out everywhere so i pushed it across the street and told him it had finally gone out but that i found the part on amazon for only $78 and would it be ok if i ordered the part from them and had it shipped to his shop to save $125 and he said OK. I went to order it & it was out of stock so i asked him if i could wait until it was back in stock & he said ok. In the meantime, i have another vehicle i can drive but the AC wasnt working on it and i live in Arizona, (i have since fixed it) so i drove my Saturn until the water pump pipe was in stock. Some time had passed and i had forgot all about the water pump pipe and the mechanic called me asking what was going on with it bcuz he needed the montero out of there bcuz he needed the space so i told him to just go ahead and order the more expensive part bcuz i checked while i had him on the phone & amazon was still out of stock. The shop called me about 3 days later and told me the montero was ready to be picked up so i asked him what did i owe him and he said the grand total came to $850! I was like EXCUSE ME? for a water pump pipe replacement? I know the part was $205 but no way the labor on that was $650! He said no, it wasn't, that he had replaced the water pump too, as well as the timing belt! The thing is tho, he didnt call to tell me about the other repairs at all and get my approval on the dollar amount first before he started the work. I was only aware of the water pump pipe and was only prepared to pay for THAT! (I realize that the two need to be replaced simultaneously, but for all the mechanic knew, ithe timing belt could have already been replaced, which it had, but that was 3 yrs ago by the previous owner who provided me with the receipt. I looked on the estimate form i had signed when i dropped the vehicle off to him and the box that states "i authorize x amount of dollars for repairs, anything above that, my authorization must be obtained" wasn't checked.
I went ahead and paid it becuz what could i do? The parts were already installed so i just paid him and didnt argue the point with him bcuz i no longer had the reciept for the timing belt repair the previous owner gave me, and maybe timing belts should be replaced after 3 yrs if the water pump is being replaced on these vehicles.
So literally, the next day, the vehicle breaks down, water was leaking everywhere coming from the water pump and of course my mechanic friend was in Vegas and i was about 15 miles away from home/shop so i had triple A tow it to the shop. He called and said it was a hose that burst, due to the pressure from the new water pump so he replaced the hose which cost $14, and charged me for coolant which i just paid $37 for when he replaced the water pump and timing belt which all leaked out the next day when the hose burst causing that coolant and the $37 i paid for it to go to waste! (Shouldn't he have checked this when he replaced the water pump? As a mechanic, you'd think that he would know this is common when replacing a water pump when the hoses are old) bcuz it wouldve saved all the coolant and money i paid for it from going to waste and the $60 in labor he charged me to replace the hose along with one of the three tows i get with triple A each year)
So then, two weeks later, my alternator went out. Luckily my mechanic friend was in town and was able to replace the alternator. However, he noticed i was leaking oil and knew it hadnt been leaking before it went into the shop and told me to call them and ask about it, ( which i did not bcuz the guy is always busy and i feel rushed when talking to him,) a few weeks later the alternator went bad again and luckily, again, my friend was in town and was able to replace it
again and the part is under lifetime warranty, he called my attention to this oil leak again but he could not determine where it was coming from but knew it wasn't there before and thought it might've come when the shop worked on it, and thought it was the oil leak causing the alternator to go out. so he replaced the alternator again and it went out again a few weeks later. At this point he was almost certain that this oil leak was leaking onto the alternator and was responsible for the previous alternators going out. When my friend looked up where he thought the oil leak was coming from it appeared that it was coming from right behind the timing cover which means he would have to take apart all the stuff that was taken apart when the timing belt was replaced! Shouldn't the mechanic who replaced the timing belt saw this leak and fixed it when he had all the stuff taken apart? That was my line of thinking so I called the shop and told him about it and he disagreed that it was the oil causing the alternator to go out (keep in mind i replaced the battery when i replaced the alternator so both were brand new.) he said it would take a awful lot of oil to kill the alternator and it wouldn't of happened that fast that it would've taken a couple of months or longer. My mechanic. friend disagreed but needed to know for sure where it was leaking from before he tore the timing belt cover and all the other stuff apart, so we asked the shop mechanic if we could bring the vehicle over and put it up on his lift to check and he said because I was a regular customer that would be OK, but he was a little hesitant to do that at first but I offered to pay him for doing that because I didn't want my friend to tear apart the timing belt stuff and see that it wasn't coming from there, so he took it in and they put it up on the lift and the mechanic said the oil leak is coming from the both sides of the valve cover but still believes that this oil leak is not responsible for taking out all three alternators he believes that alternators should not go bad even in a tub of oil. Although the alternators are under lifetime warranty it is not feasible for my friend to keep replacing them every few weeks and the lifetime warranty is limited so the store that sold it to me said if it goes out again they may not replace it. The vehicle was obviously leaking while in possession of the mechanic because we got it back leaking so shouldn't he have noticed this and addressed it at the time he replaced the timing belt because he noticed and replaced other **** when he was supposed to be doing something else. I'm just wondering what your guys' thoughts are on this whole oil alternator thing connection and whether or not my mechanic at the shop should have noticed it and repaired it when he had the vehicle torn apart replacing the water pump & timing belt. Also, if its not the oil leak causing the alternators to go out, what is? What are the odds of me getting three bad alternators back to back and just 3 weeks apart? The battery/brake light always comes on right before they go out and my mechanic friend checked the ground and the electrical wiring leading from the battery to the alternator and the fuse box and says they appear to be fine, theres no corrosion or anything. I need to fix this issue before my friend goes back to vegas and also bcuz if it goes out again, the store wont honor the warranty. My friend is replacing the valve cover gaskets now and hopefully this will resolve the issue, but the mechanic at the shop across the street insists its not the problem & that the problem lies with the alternators. They are not OEM alternators
thank you for your input I appreciate it
Ok so I recently had the mechanic at the shop across the street put in a rebuilt transmission and while doing that, he noticed that my water pump pipe was going out. When i picked up the vehicle he told me that it would need to be replaced soon but that i still had some time and said just dont take it on long trips before getting it done. He said it would run about $200 (not sure if that price included parts AND labor but once i learned that a water pump pipe cost $205, im guessing that that price didnt include labor)
about a month later the pipe gave out in my parking space and water gushout out everywhere so i pushed it across the street and told him it had finally gone out but that i found the part on amazon for only $78 and would it be ok if i ordered the part from them and had it shipped to his shop to save $125 and he said OK. I went to order it & it was out of stock so i asked him if i could wait until it was back in stock & he said ok. In the meantime, i have another vehicle i can drive but the AC wasnt working on it and i live in Arizona, (i have since fixed it) so i drove my Saturn until the water pump pipe was in stock. Some time had passed and i had forgot all about the water pump pipe and the mechanic called me asking what was going on with it bcuz he needed the montero out of there bcuz he needed the space so i told him to just go ahead and order the more expensive part bcuz i checked while i had him on the phone & amazon was still out of stock. The shop called me about 3 days later and told me the montero was ready to be picked up so i asked him what did i owe him and he said the grand total came to $850! I was like EXCUSE ME? for a water pump pipe replacement? I know the part was $205 but no way the labor on that was $650! He said no, it wasn't, that he had replaced the water pump too, as well as the timing belt! The thing is tho, he didnt call to tell me about the other repairs at all and get my approval on the dollar amount first before he started the work. I was only aware of the water pump pipe and was only prepared to pay for THAT! (I realize that the two need to be replaced simultaneously, but for all the mechanic knew, ithe timing belt could have already been replaced, which it had, but that was 3 yrs ago by the previous owner who provided me with the receipt. I looked on the estimate form i had signed when i dropped the vehicle off to him and the box that states "i authorize x amount of dollars for repairs, anything above that, my authorization must be obtained" wasn't checked.
I went ahead and paid it becuz what could i do? The parts were already installed so i just paid him and didnt argue the point with him bcuz i no longer had the reciept for the timing belt repair the previous owner gave me, and maybe timing belts should be replaced after 3 yrs if the water pump is being replaced on these vehicles.
So literally, the next day, the vehicle breaks down, water was leaking everywhere coming from the water pump and of course my mechanic friend was in Vegas and i was about 15 miles away from home/shop so i had triple A tow it to the shop. He called and said it was a hose that burst, due to the pressure from the new water pump so he replaced the hose which cost $14, and charged me for coolant which i just paid $37 for when he replaced the water pump and timing belt which all leaked out the next day when the hose burst causing that coolant and the $37 i paid for it to go to waste! (Shouldn't he have checked this when he replaced the water pump? As a mechanic, you'd think that he would know this is common when replacing a water pump when the hoses are old) bcuz it wouldve saved all the coolant and money i paid for it from going to waste and the $60 in labor he charged me to replace the hose along with one of the three tows i get with triple A each year)
So then, two weeks later, my alternator went out. Luckily my mechanic friend was in town and was able to replace the alternator. However, he noticed i was leaking oil and knew it hadnt been leaking before it went into the shop and told me to call them and ask about it, ( which i did not bcuz the guy is always busy and i feel rushed when talking to him,) a few weeks later the alternator went bad again and luckily, again, my friend was in town and was able to replace it
again and the part is under lifetime warranty, he called my attention to this oil leak again but he could not determine where it was coming from but knew it wasn't there before and thought it might've come when the shop worked on it, and thought it was the oil leak causing the alternator to go out. so he replaced the alternator again and it went out again a few weeks later. At this point he was almost certain that this oil leak was leaking onto the alternator and was responsible for the previous alternators going out. When my friend looked up where he thought the oil leak was coming from it appeared that it was coming from right behind the timing cover which means he would have to take apart all the stuff that was taken apart when the timing belt was replaced! Shouldn't the mechanic who replaced the timing belt saw this leak and fixed it when he had all the stuff taken apart? That was my line of thinking so I called the shop and told him about it and he disagreed that it was the oil causing the alternator to go out (keep in mind i replaced the battery when i replaced the alternator so both were brand new.) he said it would take a awful lot of oil to kill the alternator and it wouldn't of happened that fast that it would've taken a couple of months or longer. My mechanic. friend disagreed but needed to know for sure where it was leaking from before he tore the timing belt cover and all the other stuff apart, so we asked the shop mechanic if we could bring the vehicle over and put it up on his lift to check and he said because I was a regular customer that would be OK, but he was a little hesitant to do that at first but I offered to pay him for doing that because I didn't want my friend to tear apart the timing belt stuff and see that it wasn't coming from there, so he took it in and they put it up on the lift and the mechanic said the oil leak is coming from the both sides of the valve cover but still believes that this oil leak is not responsible for taking out all three alternators he believes that alternators should not go bad even in a tub of oil. Although the alternators are under lifetime warranty it is not feasible for my friend to keep replacing them every few weeks and the lifetime warranty is limited so the store that sold it to me said if it goes out again they may not replace it. The vehicle was obviously leaking while in possession of the mechanic because we got it back leaking so shouldn't he have noticed this and addressed it at the time he replaced the timing belt because he noticed and replaced other **** when he was supposed to be doing something else. I'm just wondering what your guys' thoughts are on this whole oil alternator thing connection and whether or not my mechanic at the shop should have noticed it and repaired it when he had the vehicle torn apart replacing the water pump & timing belt. Also, if its not the oil leak causing the alternators to go out, what is? What are the odds of me getting three bad alternators back to back and just 3 weeks apart? The battery/brake light always comes on right before they go out and my mechanic friend checked the ground and the electrical wiring leading from the battery to the alternator and the fuse box and says they appear to be fine, theres no corrosion or anything. I need to fix this issue before my friend goes back to vegas and also bcuz if it goes out again, the store wont honor the warranty. My friend is replacing the valve cover gaskets now and hopefully this will resolve the issue, but the mechanic at the shop across the street insists its not the problem & that the problem lies with the alternators. They are not OEM alternators
thank you for your input I appreciate it
#2
11-27-2017, 08:08 PM
No clue what year or engine you have, but I can tell you from first hand experience as a Fleet Tech that getting to the water pump is a full days work. With the engine torn down that far "I" would have replaced the pump, belt, belt tensioner and possibly the cog on the crankshaft and balancer bolt. Additionally, and the reason you most likely have oil leaking into your alternator, the cam shaft seals or possibly a rocker cover gasket if you're lucky. Once you have the front of the engine torn down that far for the water pump, all those items are easily to access. Over time, the cam seals in the front and back of each head become hard and leak. Oil leaking from the cam seals and being slung outward end up running down on to the top of the alternator is common on the 3.0L. The problem is, most people don't know what's involved and just want to get by cheap and it turns into a "you can pay me now, or pay me later thing with the parts", but the real *** kicker is the labor charge again and again as things buried in that area go bad. Also, make sure you buy quality parts when labor is extensive to get at the item.
Last edited by 6500rpm; 11-27-2017 at 08:20 PM.
#3
11-28-2017, 12:04 PM
Is it possible to have a batch of bad alternators at the same store?... Yes, in theory...
What are the chances of that?... Extremely, extemely low.
If you had alternators going bad and DID NOT not have any oil pouring on the alternator, then you's have grounds to suspect a bad batch. However, this is not the case here. Monteros are notorious about not liking oil in their alternators. It is #1 cause of them going bad. The most likely place where the oil is leaking from is the front camshaft seal on passenger side of the engine. This seal is located right behind one of the sprockets that is driven by the timing belt. The seals do not give out suddenly. Instead they start with a very slow leak that gets worse over time (you'd notice it on the valve cover way before your first alternator gone bad).
If the seal was bad when the timing belt was replaced, there would have been a good deal of oil leaking there and enough build up to make this issue visible. If mechanic missed that, is pretty inexcusable. The worst thing is, that it is literally a $5 part and replacing it would have added less than 10 minutes to the job once you have torn out all the timing belt components due to water pump replacement. Now, your friend will have to re-do the timing belt job in order to get the seal replaced. No need for new parts (just the seal), but the job had to be done from end to end again.
The only other possibility I can think of for why the seal could start suddenly leaking oil, is for the it to get damaged during timing belt job. This could happen if someone (mechanic) had used a long screwdriver or a pry-bar to hold/move the camshaft to match the timing marks. If that was done, you could accidentally ding the seal and cause it to start leaking. If that what happened, it would be 100% mechanic's fault. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but hope he has enough integrity to admit to a mistake and make it right by the customer (you).
What are the chances of that?... Extremely, extemely low.
If you had alternators going bad and DID NOT not have any oil pouring on the alternator, then you's have grounds to suspect a bad batch. However, this is not the case here. Monteros are notorious about not liking oil in their alternators. It is #1 cause of them going bad. The most likely place where the oil is leaking from is the front camshaft seal on passenger side of the engine. This seal is located right behind one of the sprockets that is driven by the timing belt. The seals do not give out suddenly. Instead they start with a very slow leak that gets worse over time (you'd notice it on the valve cover way before your first alternator gone bad).
If the seal was bad when the timing belt was replaced, there would have been a good deal of oil leaking there and enough build up to make this issue visible. If mechanic missed that, is pretty inexcusable. The worst thing is, that it is literally a $5 part and replacing it would have added less than 10 minutes to the job once you have torn out all the timing belt components due to water pump replacement. Now, your friend will have to re-do the timing belt job in order to get the seal replaced. No need for new parts (just the seal), but the job had to be done from end to end again.
The only other possibility I can think of for why the seal could start suddenly leaking oil, is for the it to get damaged during timing belt job. This could happen if someone (mechanic) had used a long screwdriver or a pry-bar to hold/move the camshaft to match the timing marks. If that was done, you could accidentally ding the seal and cause it to start leaking. If that what happened, it would be 100% mechanic's fault. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but hope he has enough integrity to admit to a mistake and make it right by the customer (you).
#4
11-29-2017, 03:06 AM
Thank you!
No clue what year or engine you have, but I can tell you from first hand experience as a Fleet Tech that getting to the water pump is a full days work. With the engine torn down that far "I" would have replaced the pump, belt, belt tensioner and possibly the cog on the crankshaft and balancer bolt. Additionally, and the reason you most likely have oil leaking into your alternator, the cam shaft seals or possibly a rocker cover gasket if you're lucky. Once you have the front of the engine torn down that far for the water pump, all those items are easily to access. Over time, the cam seals in the front and back of each head become hard and leak. Oil leaking from the cam seals and being slung outward end up running down on to the top of the alternator is common on the 3.0L. The problem is, most people don't know what's involved and just want to get by cheap and it turns into a "you can pay me now, or pay me later thing with the parts", but the real *** kicker is the labor charge again and again as things buried in that area go bad. Also, make sure you buy quality parts when labor is extensive to get at the item.
#5
11-29-2017, 09:48 AM
Yes, if the leak is coming from valve covers, it is a much easier fix. You'll need only two valve cover gaskets. Then your friend will need to remove the intake manifold and each of the valve covers. Put in new valve cover seals and re-install. Much easier procedure than the timing belt.
#7
12-12-2017, 06:42 PM
I bet its mostly coming from the front cam seals. I just took mine out today and that was 90% of the leak. Hopefully seal technology has come a long way because those won't very good seals by this point in time. If it is that (which is hard to see as the timing cover hides it), it requires taking the timing belt off. So you may as well replace: both front cam seals, timing belt, water pump, water pump seal, crank position sensor, crankshaft pulley bolt and washer, tensioner, both idler bearings, and any other pulleys showing free play. If its leaking like that, that tells me the rubber is bad and no one has yet replaced it. So odds are the front and rear cam seals are bad and so is the valve cover gasket and spark plug seals. Its all that same poor rubber gasket technology from the 90s and its probably all bad by now so may as well get it out of the way rather than keep chasing issues IMO.
#8
12-12-2017, 09:43 PM
I bet its mostly coming from the front cam seals. I just took mine out today and that was 90% of the leak. Hopefully seal technology has come a long way because those won't very good seals by this point in time. If it is that (which is hard to see as the timing cover hides it), it requires taking the timing belt off. So you may as well replace: both front cam seals, timing belt, water pump, water pump seal, crank position sensor, crankshaft pulley bolt and washer, tensioner, both idler bearings, and any other pulleys showing free play. If its leaking like that, that tells me the rubber is bad and no one has yet replaced it. So odds are the front and rear cam seals are bad and so is the valve cover gasket and spark plug seals. Its all that same poor rubber gasket technology from the 90s and its probably all bad by now so may as well get it out of the way rather than keep chasing issues IMO.
Some people say it's cheaper to do this all at once then to pay for labor later. The problem is that OEM parts are very expensive and non-OEM are more prone to failure and you are guaranteed to be back in there again. Should you be replacing EVERYTHING once more???
#9
12-12-2017, 11:51 PM
Water pump often comes in a timing belt kit because of the low cost of the item and high amount of labor to get at it. Crank position sensor was $8, would be smart to replace it as oil runs down on top of it from the cam seals. I'm not quite as much of a believer in OEM parts as you. If they were so great, why are we replacing rubber seals all over the place? Mitsubishi doesn't make most of the parts they sell, they just rebrand them. Most parts are made by suppliers like Dorman. Unless its a special part, there's no reason to buy it from the dealer. I used to work for a equipment mfg, we rebranded all the time. Of course we marked it up 500%...
#10
12-13-2017, 12:17 PM
Water pump often comes in a timing belt kit because of the low cost of the item and high amount of labor to get at it. Crank position sensor was $8, would be smart to replace it as oil runs down on top of it from the cam seals. I'm not quite as much of a believer in OEM parts as you. If they were so great, why are we replacing rubber seals all over the place? Mitsubishi doesn't make most of the parts they sell, they just rebrand them. Most parts are made by suppliers like Dorman. Unless its a special part, there's no reason to buy it from the dealer. I used to work for a equipment mfg, we rebranded all the time. Of course we marked it up 500%...
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