hardly any ATF on dipstick
 

Hey there,

Just checked my ATF level (while warmed up, in park,etc..). I pull out the dipstick and I can barely see any on it. I try it again, and there is just a BIT of fluid that I can see WELL below the Cold line!?!? I am hoping it is difficult to read the level of this fluid. Is there a trick to it? If there is barely enough ATF fluid to reach the dipstick, wouldn`t I be getting some weird symptoms?

Please advise.

Thanks!

bump?

I am seeing the dealership on an unrelated matter (replacing clock spring in two days), so I want to bring this to their attention if there is a problem.

I just find it VERY hard to read the level of ATF. All I see is a bit of liquid WAY below the cold mark. (it is nice and red).

Is there a trick to reading this or am I driving around with much less ATF than I should. The dealership suposedly drained and filled it.

I can post a pic later when I get home.

Thoughts in the meantime?
Thanks again

If you have the LS's automatic transaxle, have a look at the stickied thread entitled "Automatic transaxle fluid change procedure". If your dipstick looks like the one illustrated at the end of that procedure, from your description of the situation, I think there is a very good possibility that your fluid is low.

You say "the dealership suposedly drained and filled it." Did that happen recently? If it did, you are right to take the vehicle back there and have them verify that the level is, or is not, within specification. Hopefully they'll do the check with you present as they do it. Then you'll know what's what. If it's low, make damned sure that their observation is recorded "for the record" on their computerized history of your vehicle, as well as some kind of document for your records at home.

Please report back what happens at the dealer.

Good luck.

I find it difficult to read myself. But if you can see the red fluid near the C mark when it's hot then it's probably low.

Keep the dipstick pointed down instead of bringing it horizontal for the reading. Wipe down the dipstick before reading and then insert it fully. Use some paper towel slid from the handle down to the tip to detect when you get into the oil level if you can't see it.

I always seat the dipstick gasket when checking the level - push it firmly all the way in. I don't see any wording in the instructions so I assume it should be seated.

Ask your dealer to check your transmission oil level and see what they say.

That's how I check it. The problem is I can only really see red liquid at the VERY TIP of the dipstick (FAR below the C mark). Like I said, it is hard to read - maybe it is only a thin film that I should be looking for.

Can I take out the dipstick and then use a paper towel to see if there is actually fluid up where it should be (around the H mark)? I know this may sound ridiculous but I was shocked when I checked the dipstick.

That was done 12,000KM ago under the 96,000KM service. Maybe I'm just seeing the pooling effect of the fluid at the bottom of the dipstick and that it really is at the normal level, I am just having a hard time seeing it??? Hopefully? Yes, the dipstick looks like that one in the other post.

This is what I see.....thoughts? Should I see what is at the very bottom all the way up to the H when it is warmed up?

Thanks

If I were you, here's what I'd do. First, set up a shop-light so that you can vary the angle of the stick underneath it as you observe the stick from above the light after removal. Then remove the stick and make sure that the stick is absolutely dry before re-insertion. Use dish soap and water to wash all the oil off, if you have to, then dry it completely before insertion. Get a good look at what a dry stick actually looks like under the light.

Insert the stick into the tranny, then remove the stick, trying not to touch the stick on the sides of the tube/hole during removal. Examine the stick under the light and, again, vary the angle of the stick to try to see exactly where the fluid level meets the dry portion of the stick. If at this point you still see red fluid only at the lower tip and the rest of the stick is still dry, it's time to believe your eyes. The fluid is low.

I know that this a ridiculous question, but has any transmission fluid dripped onto whatever surface you park your vehicle over? If my vehicle had a low tranmission fluid level, the floor is the very first thing I'd be looking at. If the surface is dry, one plus one equals they probably didn't fill the tranny properly after draining. If it's wet, you've probably got a slow leak.
___________________________________________

(FWIW, our vehicle is at 88,000 km and at 96,000 or sooner we'll be having the fluid replaced as described in that stickied procedure -- that is, a complete fluid replacement.

Normally I'd do this bone-simple job mysef, but because we want to maintain the power train warranty beyond any question of doubt, a stealership will be doing this job.

On the rare occasions I've had any mechanical work done to a vehicle at a dealer or other repair place, I've always checked to confirm that the work has actually been done and this case will be no different, so here's what I'm going to do to confirm that the job has actually been done.

When I make the appointment for that work, I will request that when the job is complete, that the person who performed the work confirm the proper fluid level by showing me the level on the stick, either inside the shop or out in the parking lot. If that particular stealership is unwilling to fulfill my request, I'll find one that will. After all, this is not a time-consuming, unrealistic request.

On the day of the appointment, before going to the dealership, I will check the level and color of the fluid several times to get a good sample on a white cloth or paper towel and put that piece in a zip-lock baggie and take the baggie to the dealership with me.

When the job is complete and I am shown the proper level on the dipstick, I'll re-insert the stick several times to get a good sample on a white cloth or paper towel and compare the color of the "new" fluid to that of the old fluid. The new, fresh fluid should look more like the new fluid in its original container than than the old fluid that has 96,000 kms on it. If it does not, I'll be discussing my observations, cloths in hand, with the service manager.)

IMO, yes, or at least just below it.

THere is no leak. I've never seen anything on the driveway.
Also, At least at least at mydealership, they don't do a complete flush at the 96,000km. I think they quoted me an obscene amount for that.

I'll keep you posted. Thanks for the info
Dave

OK, Dave, you can't make that statement without some numbers.:)
I want to know what I might be looking at a short time down the road when I take our vehicle in for a fluid change, so if you'd spill the beans here I'd really appreciate it.

First off, is your fluid ATF-J2 or ATF-J3? (Our tranny uses ATF-J3.)

Second, did the dealership charge this to you as a "service number" with just a total charge for the "service", or did they break out the actual details of the charges -- x number of litres of fluid at so many dollars per litre, plus x number of hours of labour at x dollars per hour? If the former, what was the total economic damage inflicted on you? If the latter, what did they charge you per litre of fluid, what did they charge you per hour for labour, and how many hours did they claim the job took?

Thanks for the infomation, Dave.

Tony

I'm pretty sure it is J2 (I have the v6). They said $11/litre and they said it willbe about 15 litres or so. Total they said was about $350 for the complete flush using some machine to do it. It wasn't a hard quote..just rough....

If they used 15 litres, they replaced all the fluid in the tranny (assuming that they filled it correctly, which at this point is still uncertain).

So, 15 litres x $11/litre = $165 for fluid, and $350 - $165 = $185 for labor and any misc parts and extras.

As far as I can tell from the internet, ATF-J3 is at least $20 per litre, so if the dealership I go to also uses 15 litres, it'll be at least $300 for just the fluid alone. If the $185 for labor and extras is typical, I may very well be looking at close to $500 for a simple tranny fluid change. How wonderful.

I'm going to be doing some serious shopping around for the best price on this one.

Do you have the 2.4L? I know the v6 uses the ATF-J2.

Check out my signature. Our 2010 XLS V6 definitely uses J3. The original maintenance manual affirms it.

The 2011 pdf service manual, whose link has been recently been posted, also confirms that the 2011 LS tranny fluid is also J3.

I think that 2010 V6 transaxle was the first year for J3, but 2009 owners could confirm this.

BTW, what year is your vehicle?

Mine is 2009. Yeah, I should have seen the signature. It;s been a long long day lol

I just read our ATF level for the first time and I must admit that because the fluid is so "thin", it's not an easy read. After three or four "dips", I determined that the easiest way to read the level is to immediately move the stick into a horizontal position right in front of a daytime running light and, while looking down at the stick from directly above the stick, rotate/rock the stick slightly in the beam while keeping it as level as possible horizontally so that the upper level of the relatively shiny fluid can be easily differentiated from the less-reflective dry stick above (next to) it.

If the stick is held vertically, the coating/layer of fluid on the stick immediately starts moving/flowing down the stick toward the tip to form a drop, thinning the fluid at the wet/dry interface, making it more difficult to discern. (OTOH, I can't even tell what color the fluid is unless I hold it vertically and allow that drop to form on the end of the stick. Only then can I see that it is red. I would not be able to tell the level on the horizontal stick by looking for a red fluid. Only by looking for shiny versus not shiny can I tell where the level is and, again, the daytime running light really helps with seeing that difference.)

BTW, the level of fluid in our transmission is perfect -- literally right on the upper mark on the H side of the stick. Good.

I will certainly try that. My issue is that some fluid gets on the stick from the sides when pulling it out, so I have a hard time reading what is actually the level and what is fluid getting on the stick form just pulling it free.....

I will try that though.
Cheers,
dave

Because the stick is forced to change direction by the filler tube as it is slid in, one can't help but slide it out while touching at least some part of the tube, but that does not prevent ultimately getting an accurate reading.

When I said tilt/rotate the stick in front of the light, here's what I meant. Again, while keeping your eyes directly above the stick, hold the stick maybe 6" directly in front of the center-point of the light, parallel with both the front end of the vehicle and, in the other "plane", level with the ground.

For the first second or two also keep the flat surfaces of the stick parallel with the surface of the ground. One side will be "looking" down at the ground while the other side will be looking up at the sky (and your eyes).

Then make believe that the stick is the throttle on a motorcycle. While still keeping the stick in the above two planes, "twist" (or, if you prefer, "tilt") the flat surface stick forward and backward away from you and then toward you (the flat surface of the stick no longer parallel with the ground's surface) back and forth -- as if you were trying to reflect the beam of light from the headlamp UP into to your eyes, which is precisely what you are trying to do. The wetted part of the stick will reflect the light into your eyes, while the dry part will not.

The above is the one and only way that allows my eyes to see where the wetted part ends and the dry part begins. The back and forth twisting/rocking motion is the only way I could find to maintain adequate thickness in the fluid film to do the reflecting. If held in the proper orientation, the fluid can only run off the stick by moving to either of the two long edges of the stick, but the back and forth rocking motion prevents it from doing that.

Although it takes forever to describe the procedure, it can be performed in only three or four seconds. As soon as the stick exits the tube, put it into the horizontal orientation while moving it in front of the light. Then start rocking while looking downward over the stick. Voila, there's your fluid level.

Well, went to the dealership yesterday to get a clock spring put in and I had them look at my atf level. It was confirmed it was low, but the tech said by only about 300ml. He topped it up and said it would be fine. I finally saw the level on the dipstick when hot. It was around 1/2 way between cold and hot. He even admitted it is toughh to read and said 300ml low will not do anything bad.

Good for you and your tranny!:D

That's good to know the difference of 300 ml is that much on the dipstick, which means if you are going to get some ATF on the dipstick you are probably in the good zone.

Check the level in a few days to make sure it has not changed

How do you add more ATF to the transmission? Is there a fill plug?

lol, no idea. The mechanic did it. Sorry!

It's added via a very long funnel that has a small-diameter outlet that fits right in the tanny fluid dipstick hole.
Super Multi-Purpose Funnel | Canadian Tire