What will I need to accomplish this?
#22
03-28-2007, 05:04 PM
RE: What will I need to accomplish this?
My friend has a 2G Gs-t with an E316G and his car is doing fine. He's got everything to support it and his 7 bolt is holding up just fine and he drives the crap out of it. Don't scare yourselves with the "C" word. You or a previous owner has to be pretty rough with the motor/tranny to get it to walk. Also note that the 6 bolt isn't immune to it either.
Since you plan on getting DSMLink, 680cc is fine. I have 780cc and I don't have any issues and I'm running an FPB28. One good thing about having larger than needed injectors is that I will never need to worry about running out of fuel, lol.
I'm going to paste what's on the FAQ.
On a side note, Matt. I've got a spare Forge 1G bov sitting in my workbench for $130 + shipping (NIB) 
It's their newest release. I have one in my car already, so I don't need this one.
Since you plan on getting DSMLink, 680cc is fine. I have 780cc and I don't have any issues and I'm running an FPB28. One good thing about having larger than needed injectors is that I will never need to worry about running out of fuel, lol.
I'm going to paste what's on the FAQ.
ORIGINAL: silvercoupe97
With folks getting their taxes back, folks are upgrading their DSMs. "What turbo should I get?", the popular response is an EVO 3 16g. Why? 1) It's a powerful turbo for the price 2) " for the size 3) It's not a "motor build up" turbo like the 20G or larger sized turbos.
Ok, so you decide to get this turbo. Now you need it's supporting mods...come on, you didn't think that you can just swap out the stock turbo with higher flowing one safely and call it a day did you? Of course you can do that, but only if 1) you keep the boost level low and 2) get it with a 34mm flapper. Why? the E316G is notorious for boost creeping at lower boost levels (low being, below 18psi). Large flowing turbo with a tiny relief hole? That's boost creep in the making and it doesn't stop with the E316G..remember that.
So, those variables are now considered in your head. What's next? Fuel and management. Every car is different!!! Don't take the word of your buddy with the same motor with what I and others would call a skimpy setup. His may be ok and his may not go into fuel cut, overrun, or knock, but yours may just be older or yours may just have many other variables that aren't or can't be taken accounted for because you just don't know. Lucky for you I have the info you need for getting this turbo
Take this write up as it is...a write up. This motor is a gazillion years old, there have been folks who have been there and done that, but for some reason, the younger crowd still just doesn't want to listen. There's only a few new tricks that you can teach an old dog and haste makes waste. I haven't been with my 4g63 for very long, but I have learned from the "best" and I'm a quick learner. I have also seen a lot of combinations of mods and what I saw was what they got, half ***. I've seen cars with E316Gs get walked on....by me with my little wimpy FPB28, why? Because I've got all my supporting mods + a very healthy tuning device. If you can't control what you have, you're not going to get all that you can out of your setup and then you'll be scratching your head wondering why that stock STi just walked you. I'm not tooting my own horn here, I'm trying to get you new guys to listen. Although, I am very proud of my setup and confident with it
Go at your own pace, just know that any turbo won't be close to it's full potential unless it's fully supported. Not only that, but you can ruin a perfectly good motor.
Hey, that was great...I did a write up and a rant, lol.
With folks getting their taxes back, folks are upgrading their DSMs. "What turbo should I get?", the popular response is an EVO 3 16g. Why? 1) It's a powerful turbo for the price 2) " for the size 3) It's not a "motor build up" turbo like the 20G or larger sized turbos.
Ok, so you decide to get this turbo. Now you need it's supporting mods...come on, you didn't think that you can just swap out the stock turbo with higher flowing one safely and call it a day did you? Of course you can do that, but only if 1) you keep the boost level low and 2) get it with a 34mm flapper. Why? the E316G is notorious for boost creeping at lower boost levels (low being, below 18psi). Large flowing turbo with a tiny relief hole? That's boost creep in the making and it doesn't stop with the E316G..remember that.
So, those variables are now considered in your head. What's next? Fuel and management. Every car is different!!! Don't take the word of your buddy with the same motor with what I and others would call a skimpy setup. His may be ok and his may not go into fuel cut, overrun, or knock, but yours may just be older or yours may just have many other variables that aren't or can't be taken accounted for because you just don't know. Lucky for you I have the info you need for getting this turbo
Original poster:2gGSX
“What size injectors/fuel pump/etc. should I go with on my Evo III setup”
This question is almost asked daily, so I choose to cover it within this guide. The Evo III is no small turbo despite its size. Many newbies think this turbo will net them 400 wheel horsepower, because it has for other people and a certain company shows off a dyno graph of it on their website. As true as this may be, these results are not typical—this is the equivalent to the weight loss commercials you see on television where someone loses 1/3 their total body weight. Is it true? Sure! Is this normal? NO. Granted that the maximum airflow seen through these turbos is over 44 lbs/min, the average user should not expect this. The normal value is closer to 33-37 lbs/min. If your setup runs more airflow than others then great, you’re doing something right or maybe you have a freak setup. A vast majority of Evo III owners should however fall within this range of airflow (read: no cams, SMIM, higher compression, etc). Thus, if you are an average Evo III owner, you will only need to support this range of airflow.
I will put it out there now. The absolute rock bottom setup you need to begin to successfully run this turbo will be: 550cc injectors, an SAFC or your choice of piggyback, a datalogger, and a fuel pump upgrade with a rewire (Evo, 3000 GT VR4, Walbro 190, etc). My justifications for this are as follows:
550cc injectors: If you’re broke, you’re broke. These will support 3.50 lbs/min of fuel at 95% IDC (3.68 lbs/min of fuel at 100% IDC) assuming .76 specific gravity of pump gas, which translates to 38.5 lbs/min airflow (40.5 lbs/min at 100% IDC) supported at 11:1 AFR. Is this enough for the “average” Evo III owner? Yes, it is. Is it pushing the limits? Yes, it is. Are you comfortable with this? If not then spend the extra money on larger injectors, but as I said this is the absolute least you can upgrade to for these injectors.
SAFC/logger: Cheap, effective, enough for 550cc injectors. Is it enough for 650cc injectors? Some people say yes, others say you’ll be pulling too much airflow. This is really a matter of personal preference, but either way it is also the rock bottom upgrade for this turb.
Rewired Walbro 190: What does the data above state? At 15 psi boost this pump will definitely deliver. At 20 you are starting to push it if you do indeed need more pump than 3.625 lbs/min fuel at said fuel pressure. But what is the solution to this? Rewire it. At the same 20 psi boost level you are flowing 4 lbs/min of fuel. How much airflow will this support? More than (most if not all) can hope to produce at 20 psi on this turbo. Granted if you do start taking the turbo to ludicrous boost to break records or follow in the footsteps of ShapeGSX, Tom Noonen, SBR, and run 30+ psi boost spikes and then “settle” at 24+ psi, then you will need more pump due to the flow falling off drastically with boost. At the same time, you probably do not need this guide if you’re about to break records.
And there you have it. That is why I believe the bare minimum to run this turbo are the above components. Granted you will still need other supporting mods such as an intercooler upgrade to avoid heat soak, but that is another topic.
Do I need an AFPR for my 255(hp)/Supra(rewired) pump?
Yes. You will overrun your stock FPR. You may not notice it nor care, but it is happening and the only way to stop it and control your base fuel pressure is with an AFPR. Will you get away without using it? Sure! If that’s how you want to do it then no one will stop you, but many others will disagree with your ideology and continue to recommend an AFPR to people running large pumps.
“What size injectors/fuel pump/etc. should I go with on my Evo III setup”
This question is almost asked daily, so I choose to cover it within this guide. The Evo III is no small turbo despite its size. Many newbies think this turbo will net them 400 wheel horsepower, because it has for other people and a certain company shows off a dyno graph of it on their website. As true as this may be, these results are not typical—this is the equivalent to the weight loss commercials you see on television where someone loses 1/3 their total body weight. Is it true? Sure! Is this normal? NO. Granted that the maximum airflow seen through these turbos is over 44 lbs/min, the average user should not expect this. The normal value is closer to 33-37 lbs/min. If your setup runs more airflow than others then great, you’re doing something right or maybe you have a freak setup. A vast majority of Evo III owners should however fall within this range of airflow (read: no cams, SMIM, higher compression, etc). Thus, if you are an average Evo III owner, you will only need to support this range of airflow.
I will put it out there now. The absolute rock bottom setup you need to begin to successfully run this turbo will be: 550cc injectors, an SAFC or your choice of piggyback, a datalogger, and a fuel pump upgrade with a rewire (Evo, 3000 GT VR4, Walbro 190, etc). My justifications for this are as follows:
550cc injectors: If you’re broke, you’re broke. These will support 3.50 lbs/min of fuel at 95% IDC (3.68 lbs/min of fuel at 100% IDC) assuming .76 specific gravity of pump gas, which translates to 38.5 lbs/min airflow (40.5 lbs/min at 100% IDC) supported at 11:1 AFR. Is this enough for the “average” Evo III owner? Yes, it is. Is it pushing the limits? Yes, it is. Are you comfortable with this? If not then spend the extra money on larger injectors, but as I said this is the absolute least you can upgrade to for these injectors.
SAFC/logger: Cheap, effective, enough for 550cc injectors. Is it enough for 650cc injectors? Some people say yes, others say you’ll be pulling too much airflow. This is really a matter of personal preference, but either way it is also the rock bottom upgrade for this turb.
Rewired Walbro 190: What does the data above state? At 15 psi boost this pump will definitely deliver. At 20 you are starting to push it if you do indeed need more pump than 3.625 lbs/min fuel at said fuel pressure. But what is the solution to this? Rewire it. At the same 20 psi boost level you are flowing 4 lbs/min of fuel. How much airflow will this support? More than (most if not all) can hope to produce at 20 psi on this turbo. Granted if you do start taking the turbo to ludicrous boost to break records or follow in the footsteps of ShapeGSX, Tom Noonen, SBR, and run 30+ psi boost spikes and then “settle” at 24+ psi, then you will need more pump due to the flow falling off drastically with boost. At the same time, you probably do not need this guide if you’re about to break records.
And there you have it. That is why I believe the bare minimum to run this turbo are the above components. Granted you will still need other supporting mods such as an intercooler upgrade to avoid heat soak, but that is another topic.
Do I need an AFPR for my 255(hp)/Supra(rewired) pump?
Yes. You will overrun your stock FPR. You may not notice it nor care, but it is happening and the only way to stop it and control your base fuel pressure is with an AFPR. Will you get away without using it? Sure! If that’s how you want to do it then no one will stop you, but many others will disagree with your ideology and continue to recommend an AFPR to people running large pumps.
Go at your own pace, just know that any turbo won't be close to it's full potential unless it's fully supported. Not only that, but you can ruin a perfectly good motor.
Hey, that was great...I did a write up and a rant, lol.
It's their newest release. I have one in my car already, so I don't need this one.
#23
03-28-2007, 05:34 PM
RE: What will I need to accomplish this?
Ialready have a 6 bolt in my garage. Just deciding what internals to go with.
#24
03-28-2007, 06:04 PM
RE: What will I need to accomplish this?
I can get the new Forge b.o.v for $130 shipped brand new in the box. I appreciate the offer though.
If I do get the 2g version will it bolt right up? It just looks odd looking at the picture
and if I get the 1g could someone send me a picture or link as to what i'd need?
http://www.velocityfactor.net/wwwroo...dCategory=1178
If I do get the 2g version will it bolt right up? It just looks odd looking at the picture
and if I get the 1g could someone send me a picture or link as to what i'd need?
http://www.velocityfactor.net/wwwroo...dCategory=1178
#25
03-28-2007, 08:25 PM
RE: What will I need to accomplish this?
No worries bro. Damn prices keep dropping, lol. I got mine from them too.
The 2G Forge DV (diverter valve, this is what we have although it's somehow called a "blow off" valve) will just drop in, just make sure to get the one with the recirc tube and not the BOV (no recirc tube) type. The 1G will need a 1G flange for the UCIP, then you can bolt it on. There are pics of a 1G flange on my CarDomain, just click my sig.
The 2G Forge DV (diverter valve, this is what we have although it's somehow called a "blow off" valve) will just drop in, just make sure to get the one with the recirc tube and not the BOV (no recirc tube) type. The 1G will need a 1G flange for the UCIP, then you can bolt it on. There are pics of a 1G flange on my CarDomain, just click my sig.
#26
03-28-2007, 08:34 PM
RE: What will I need to accomplish this?
Alright cool. Thanks man. IfI plan onthrowing a 6 bolt in my car should I just get the 1g with the flange orwill the 2g workjust finewhen I throw that motor in? I know it has to recirculate don't worry. I've looked for days about modding this car. The ONLY three i've found that recirculate that are aftermarket or the greddy RS, hks, both of which need recirculating kits and then the Forge which doesn't need anything but 10 minutes of someones time to put it in. Plus it looks nice and not everyone has it.
#27
03-28-2007, 09:32 PM
RE: What will I need to accomplish this?
Just know that my Forge is loud as poop for a recirc'd bov. I hang out with two guys that have GS-Ts with their BOVs vented and mine is as loud or louder than theirs. They always ask if I'm vented.....EVERYTIME, lol. Also note that I have all hard piping, a harder rubber recirc tube (not like the ribbed kind), and an aftermarket filter. My stock 1G was fairly loud (not really), but this one scared me once while driving under an overpass/suspended hwy, lol. I was very audible even with a 3" turboback and highflow cat at WOT in second gear.
Any aftermarket is better than the stock 2G bov. Just know that you can get a flange for just about any bov out there and none of those BOVs/DVs are limited to any vehicle types. There are limiting factors though, such as height, but not really much else. Think of BOVs/DVs as a "universal" piece. All you will need is the correct flange. Hell, if you wanted an Audi, Subie, SRT-4, etc. just get the appropriate flange welded on and you're done. Seriously. Don't limit yourself to "DSM only, Audi only, blah, blah" tags.
Any aftermarket is better than the stock 2G bov. Just know that you can get a flange for just about any bov out there and none of those BOVs/DVs are limited to any vehicle types. There are limiting factors though, such as height, but not really much else. Think of BOVs/DVs as a "universal" piece. All you will need is the correct flange. Hell, if you wanted an Audi, Subie, SRT-4, etc. just get the appropriate flange welded on and you're done. Seriously. Don't limit yourself to "DSM only, Audi only, blah, blah" tags.
#28
03-28-2007, 10:53 PM
RE: What will I need to accomplish this?
And peckernut, just because
does not mean i don't stay ACTIVELY involved on the site and communicate with the members.
Why have I only been on here since january, cause thats WHEN I BOUGHT MY ECLIPSE, *******.
Boy, you did a great job at getting me riled up.
I hope you snap your crank.
I wasn't mouthing off to a seasoned vet he has been a member since jan of this year. I was waiting for a seasoned vet to chime in because they aren't lazy like him. I'm sure that my questioned has been covered, but i figured it only took someone 5 seconds to type out the answer so why should I go searching through 20 different post trying to find the answer to my question
Why have I only been on here since january, cause thats WHEN I BOUGHT MY ECLIPSE, *******.
Boy, you did a great job at getting me riled up.
I hope you snap your crank.
#29
03-28-2007, 10:55 PM
RE: What will I need to accomplish this?
I dont disagree with Joshes responce in the least bit, he is obsolutly right it is even in the freaking rules to search before you make a post.
'preciate that.
#30
03-28-2007, 11:27 PM
RE: What will I need to accomplish this?
I know that any bov is universal. I just see all kinds of flanges for the 1g it gets confusing 'im just gonna go with the 2g forge b.o.v. What piping kit should I get I want to get hard piping but i'm confused can you show me a kit that will work without messing up any of the sensors. I'm use to turboing honda's you don't have to worry about your MAF sensor etc just slap the kit on get some injectors, resistor box, get your ecu chipped, and get a street or dyno tune.