Exhaust and the law
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Joined: Jan 2006
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From:
RE: Exhaust and the law
on a little addon with what mike was talking about my tickets. I havnt been pulled over in over a year but when i was being pulled over it was usually late at night with cops that were checking for drunk drivers. All-in-all i really havnt gotten that many tickets. It hard to remember them but i think ive had only three. One which was the first i ever got a unsafe passing which i tried to fight and had it reduced by 50%. Then next two where for pulling out in the street at night where a cop was comming down the road faster than i anticipated. He had to slow down and pulled me over. The other was speeding 10mph over on a highway. Those two i fought and got out of. But other than that i cant think of any others that ive gotten. Ive probably been pulled over 5+ times other than these incidents though and never got a ticket. A couple times i got the whole "your exhaust is illegal and you need to change that" warning. But that was it
Senior Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 12,084
RE: Exhaust and the law
ORIGINAL: TheEngineer
on a little addon with what mike was talking about my tickets. I havnt been pulled over in over a year but when i was being pulled over it was usually late at night with cops that were checking for drunk drivers. All-in-all i really havnt gotten that many tickets. It hard to remember them but i think ive had only three. One which was the first i ever got a unsafe passing which i tried to fight and had it reduced by 50%. Then next two where for pulling out in the street at night where a cop was comming down the road faster than i anticipated. He had to slow down and pulled me over. The other was speeding 10mph over on a highway. Those two i fought and got out of. But other than that i cant think of any others that ive gotten. Ive probably been pulled over 5+ times other than these incidents though and never got a ticket. A couple times i got the whole "your exhaust is illegal and you need to change that" warning. But that was it
on a little addon with what mike was talking about my tickets. I havnt been pulled over in over a year but when i was being pulled over it was usually late at night with cops that were checking for drunk drivers. All-in-all i really havnt gotten that many tickets. It hard to remember them but i think ive had only three. One which was the first i ever got a unsafe passing which i tried to fight and had it reduced by 50%. Then next two where for pulling out in the street at night where a cop was comming down the road faster than i anticipated. He had to slow down and pulled me over. The other was speeding 10mph over on a highway. Those two i fought and got out of. But other than that i cant think of any others that ive gotten. Ive probably been pulled over 5+ times other than these incidents though and never got a ticket. A couple times i got the whole "your exhaust is illegal and you need to change that" warning. But that was it
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 79
RE: Exhaust and the law
I have no issues at all with law enforcement. I actually work with themon a number of projects for the company I work for. I significantly dislike it when laws are enforced at the whim of the officer. There are few cars over 10 years old that do not have a aftermarket muffler on them. How many Harley's you see (or hear) that have stock factory mufflers on them.
My issue is lawshave specifics that need to be understoodand followed byboth sides. This is why we have Miranda rights. Some may feel that these hinder the enforcement of laws. I feel they are a check on the powerwe give to the law enforcers.
Emonz may be right.I may just make my son a target for local police. I am hoping that my explination and my testing will show thatI am not trying to **** off the officer, butjust trying to comply with what the law says.
My son had his neons on and he did have a loud muffler. We removed the lights and added amanufacturer approved sound reduction system. If the car now meets the requirements of the State, that should be all there is to it. Laws prohibiting modification of cars haveprobably been on the books since the first car laws were made. I know I had my share ofFix-it tickes when Iwas ateenager in the late 60's. That does not mean any driver should be harrassed forquestioning authority.
My issue is lawshave specifics that need to be understoodand followed byboth sides. This is why we have Miranda rights. Some may feel that these hinder the enforcement of laws. I feel they are a check on the powerwe give to the law enforcers.
Emonz may be right.I may just make my son a target for local police. I am hoping that my explination and my testing will show thatI am not trying to **** off the officer, butjust trying to comply with what the law says.
My son had his neons on and he did have a loud muffler. We removed the lights and added amanufacturer approved sound reduction system. If the car now meets the requirements of the State, that should be all there is to it. Laws prohibiting modification of cars haveprobably been on the books since the first car laws were made. I know I had my share ofFix-it tickes when Iwas ateenager in the late 60's. That does not mean any driver should be harrassed forquestioning authority.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 253
From:
RE: Exhaust and the law
i have meet 1 cop in my life that i didnt like... the others were all extremely nice and actually good guys, dated the daughter of a cop as well and altho he was a lil intimidating at first i jsut talked to him and we ended up sharing partyin stories by the end of the nite...and im only 18
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 45
From:
RE: Exhaust and the law
Im in WI and I always thought the DB law was 95db limit. A db test is normaly took at around 4000rpm a few feat away from the exhaust off to a angle. If you want one go to the DNR.
Also, how can they prove your car is over the db limit with no profe? Thats like them saying you where speeding when they had no radar gun.
Also I am very good at reading db limits by ear. 79 dB is very very quiet.Eithor you tested it at idle or thetest was done wrong.Most aftermarket mufflers with the inseart in it run at about 95dbs which is what the factorys do since 95dbs is what is saposed to be ligal
Also, how can they prove your car is over the db limit with no profe? Thats like them saying you where speeding when they had no radar gun.
Also I am very good at reading db limits by ear. 79 dB is very very quiet.Eithor you tested it at idle or thetest was done wrong.Most aftermarket mufflers with the inseart in it run at about 95dbs which is what the factorys do since 95dbs is what is saposed to be ligal
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 79
RE: Exhaust and the law
Blue
No dB settings in the State. Some cities like Mad town (Madison) have city limits in dB, but the state law just says "
Testing was done absolutly by the ASE standards. Been doing sound level testing for 30 years so pretty sure it is correct. 82 dB with the silencer at .5 meters at a 45 degree to the left of the muffler with the microphone at the level of the exhaust. 95 dB is what the ASE standard limit is for this test.
Test was done with a Gen Rad 1933 Octive Band Analyzer calibrated to a 100 dB calibration source. Test was at 1000 Hz on the A scale with slow response.
The EPA also has a 80 dB standard for 20 feet. Muffler comes out at 77 dB. That happens to be what I found for a sound level that road and track listed for a 1995 GT. Article did not specify what standard that was done to.
Put in a call to the trooper that issued the citation. He has not called me back yet, but I expect when I tell him what we did and the results, he will sign it off. Can't see what he would have to use in court if he does not.
No dB settings in the State. Some cities like Mad town (Madison) have city limits in dB, but the state law just says "
347.39(2) No person shall modify the exhaust system of any such motor vehicle in a manner which will amplify or increase the noise emitted by the motor of such vehicle above that emitted by the muffler originally installed on the vehicle, and such original muffler shall comply with all the requirements of this section."
Testing was done absolutly by the ASE standards. Been doing sound level testing for 30 years so pretty sure it is correct. 82 dB with the silencer at .5 meters at a 45 degree to the left of the muffler with the microphone at the level of the exhaust. 95 dB is what the ASE standard limit is for this test.
Test was done with a Gen Rad 1933 Octive Band Analyzer calibrated to a 100 dB calibration source. Test was at 1000 Hz on the A scale with slow response.
The EPA also has a 80 dB standard for 20 feet. Muffler comes out at 77 dB. That happens to be what I found for a sound level that road and track listed for a 1995 GT. Article did not specify what standard that was done to.
Put in a call to the trooper that issued the citation. He has not called me back yet, but I expect when I tell him what we did and the results, he will sign it off. Can't see what he would have to use in court if he does not.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 79
RE: Exhaust and the law
Thought I would give you all an update. Took a number of weeks for the officer and I to finally get talking on the phone. I go over all the sound readings and other information I have. He says well, I still have to listen to it. So I invite him over. He looks at the muffler and says "that is not factory original". I say, that is correct and neither is any muffler that you get at any one of the muffler shops in town. So he says start it up. I do and he says, nope, that is too loud. I ask how he can tell, and he says well you can hear that it is. He says listen to that rumble, that is way to loud. I say, you are correct that the new muffler is operating at a different frequency, but also pull out my professional sound level meter and show him that it is at 77 decibels at 20 feet, just like the factory specifications. I remind him that our law just says the muffler can not be any louder than the factory muffler. He says "well, dispite what your meter says, it is too loud". I then spend the next 15 minutes explaning to him the difference between frequency and sound level. I say that our state law does not address the pitch (frequency) a muffler can make, just the sound level. He still does not get it, so in my most polite voice I say, "well, it looks like we need to go to court" He says "You would go to court over a muffler?" I say yes.
Will keep you informed on if I get to educate the judge
Will keep you informed on if I get to educate the judge
Junior Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 9
From: chicago illinois
Catch22!RE: Exhaust and the law
Thought I would give you all an update. Took a number of weeks for the officer and I to finally get talking on the phone. I go over all the sound readings and other information I have. He says well, I still have to listen to it. So I invite him over. He looks at the muffler and says "that is not factory original". I say, that is correct and neither is any muffler that you get at any one of the muffler shops in town. So he says start it up. I do and he says, nope, that is too loud. I ask how he can tell, and he says well you can hear that it is. He says listen to that rumble, that is way to loud. I say, you are correct that the new muffler is operating at a different frequency, but also pull out my professional sound level meter and show him that it is at 77 decibels at 20 feet, just like the factory specifications. I remind him that our law just says the muffler can not be any louder than the factory muffler. He says "well, dispite what your meter says, it is too loud". I then spend the next 15 minutes explaning to him the difference between frequency and sound level. I say that our state law does not address the pitch (frequency) a muffler can make, just the sound level. He still does not get it, so in my most polite voice I say, "well, it looks like we need to go to court" He says "You would go to court over a muffler?" I say yes.
Will keep you informed on if I get to educate the judge
Thought I would give you all an update. Took a number of weeks for the officer and I to finally get talking on the phone. I go over all the sound readings and other information I have. He says well, I still have to listen to it. So I invite him over. He looks at the muffler and says "that is not factory original". I say, that is correct and neither is any muffler that you get at any one of the muffler shops in town. So he says start it up. I do and he says, nope, that is too loud. I ask how he can tell, and he says well you can hear that it is. He says listen to that rumble, that is way to loud. I say, you are correct that the new muffler is operating at a different frequency, but also pull out my professional sound level meter and show him that it is at 77 decibels at 20 feet, just like the factory specifications. I remind him that our law just says the muffler can not be any louder than the factory muffler. He says "well, dispite what your meter says, it is too loud". I then spend the next 15 minutes explaning to him the difference between frequency and sound level. I say that our state law does not address the pitch (frequency) a muffler can make, just the sound level. He still does not get it, so in my most polite voice I say, "well, it looks like we need to go to court" He says "You would go to court over a muffler?" I say yes.
Will keep you informed on if I get to educate the judge