2002 montero sport 3.5L engine removal
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 483
Bad news, never fun. Did you replace all the seals during the rebuild? I suppose you will have to tear into the front and locate the leak and probably do a seal replacement.
Another thought......there is a liquid that you pour into the engine oil and it will work its way to the seals and cause them to expand some, often stopping leaks. Forgot the name of it. I had a terrible leak in my riding mower lower crank seal, and poured this in, and totally stopped the oil leak. I would drain off some of the engine oil, then add a full quart of this stuff, make it kinda "extra strong" to ensure it works. However, if you replaced the seals during the rebuild and maybe put one in wrong, or tore the seal, then this gook probably wont work.
Another thought......there is a liquid that you pour into the engine oil and it will work its way to the seals and cause them to expand some, often stopping leaks. Forgot the name of it. I had a terrible leak in my riding mower lower crank seal, and poured this in, and totally stopped the oil leak. I would drain off some of the engine oil, then add a full quart of this stuff, make it kinda "extra strong" to ensure it works. However, if you replaced the seals during the rebuild and maybe put one in wrong, or tore the seal, then this gook probably wont work.
Thread Starter
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Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 348
From: Northern VA
Bad news, never fun. Did you replace all the seals during the rebuild? I suppose you will have to tear into the front and locate the leak and probably do a seal replacement.
Another thought......there is a liquid that you pour into the engine oil and it will work its way to the seals and cause them to expand some, often stopping leaks. Forgot the name of it. I had a terrible leak in my riding mower lower crank seal, and poured this in, and totally stopped the oil leak. I would drain off some of the engine oil, then add a full quart of this stuff, make it kinda "extra strong" to ensure it works. However, if you replaced the seals during the rebuild and maybe put one in wrong, or tore the seal, then this gook probably wont work.
Another thought......there is a liquid that you pour into the engine oil and it will work its way to the seals and cause them to expand some, often stopping leaks. Forgot the name of it. I had a terrible leak in my riding mower lower crank seal, and poured this in, and totally stopped the oil leak. I would drain off some of the engine oil, then add a full quart of this stuff, make it kinda "extra strong" to ensure it works. However, if you replaced the seals during the rebuild and maybe put one in wrong, or tore the seal, then this gook probably wont work.
Was wondering if the leaks were somehow related to using synthetic oil for the recent oil change (I bought it by mistake). The leak occurred after this switch. Oil change was 7/20/19 using Fram PH9688 filter 5 qts Castrol GTX 5w30 Synthetic. I know Hunter hates the Fram filters.
Raining today so not sure if I will be able to investigate further...
I have not tried the stop leak snake oil
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 483
I have no idea if synthetic oil would leak easier than reg. oil, and this is all I found when searching:
"This is an often-cited myth. In fact, if your seals and gaskets are in good condition, synthetic oil will not leak in your engine. Synthetic oil has not been shown to deteriorate engine seals or gaskets. But it might find an existing leak."
Maybe drain out the synthetic oil, and save for your lawn mowers, and put back the good stuff, and maybe a qt. of that Stop Leak for good measure?
Fram filters.....Yep, I watched several videos of mechanics cutting them open and showing how cheap they are, so I dont use them anymore.
Hunter, what say you?
"This is an often-cited myth. In fact, if your seals and gaskets are in good condition, synthetic oil will not leak in your engine. Synthetic oil has not been shown to deteriorate engine seals or gaskets. But it might find an existing leak."
Maybe drain out the synthetic oil, and save for your lawn mowers, and put back the good stuff, and maybe a qt. of that Stop Leak for good measure?
Fram filters.....Yep, I watched several videos of mechanics cutting them open and showing how cheap they are, so I dont use them anymore.
Hunter, what say you?
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,044
From: Washington State
Larry, so sorry to hear about the oil leak you developed. Years ago, after hearing the same info about synthetic oils causing gasket leaks, I was concerned about that and always stayed away from synth oils. Later on, after talking with the guy who actually knows engines and races Formula Ford cars, I found out that this is just an old myth. Just like Studebaker pointed out. I now run synthetic oil in all my vehicles. I've done it for years now. No new leaks developed at any point when switching.
Regarding your current situation, I wonder if the issue might be oil pump bolt(s) loosening? That would be the exact spot where the leak would occur. I guess you wouldn't know until you pull the timing cover. In either case, if it's a front crankshaft seal or the oil pump seal, you should be able to replace those with the engine on the vehicle. You probably can even leave radiator in place (or take it out to make more room to work).
There is one thing I'd like call your attention to - when installing new seal, make sure it doesn't sit in exactly the same position as the old one. You want the seal to be at least a millimeter off from the area where old seal was contacting the crankshaft. That way the seal will be riding on the "fresh" surface and not in the groove where old seal was. This suppose to help increase longevity of the replacement seals.
As far as your wife's suggestion to get rid of it - she can't do that to you... What are you going to do without having things to fix?
Regarding your current situation, I wonder if the issue might be oil pump bolt(s) loosening? That would be the exact spot where the leak would occur. I guess you wouldn't know until you pull the timing cover. In either case, if it's a front crankshaft seal or the oil pump seal, you should be able to replace those with the engine on the vehicle. You probably can even leave radiator in place (or take it out to make more room to work).
There is one thing I'd like call your attention to - when installing new seal, make sure it doesn't sit in exactly the same position as the old one. You want the seal to be at least a millimeter off from the area where old seal was contacting the crankshaft. That way the seal will be riding on the "fresh" surface and not in the groove where old seal was. This suppose to help increase longevity of the replacement seals.
As far as your wife's suggestion to get rid of it - she can't do that to you... What are you going to do without having things to fix?
Thread Starter
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Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 348
From: Northern VA
Larry, so sorry to hear about the oil leak you developed. Years ago, after hearing the same info about synthetic oils causing gasket leaks, I was concerned about that and always stayed away from synth oils. Later on, after talking with the guy who actually knows engines and races Formula Ford cars, I found out that this is just an old myth. Just like Studebaker pointed out. I now run synthetic oil in all my vehicles. I've done it for years now. No new leaks developed at any point when switching.
Regarding your current situation, I wonder if the issue might be oil pump bolt(s) loosening? That would be the exact spot where the leak would occur. I guess you wouldn't know until you pull the timing cover. In either case, if it's a front crankshaft seal or the oil pump seal, you should be able to replace those with the engine on the vehicle. You probably can even leave radiator in place (or take it out to make more room to work).
There is one thing I'd like call your attention to - when installing new seal, make sure it doesn't sit in exactly the same position as the old one. You want the seal to be at least a millimeter off from the area where old seal was contacting the crankshaft. That way the seal will be riding on the "fresh" surface and not in the groove where old seal was. This suppose to help increase longevity of the replacement seals.
As far as your wife's suggestion to get rid of it - she can't do that to you... What are you going to do without having things to fix?
Regarding your current situation, I wonder if the issue might be oil pump bolt(s) loosening? That would be the exact spot where the leak would occur. I guess you wouldn't know until you pull the timing cover. In either case, if it's a front crankshaft seal or the oil pump seal, you should be able to replace those with the engine on the vehicle. You probably can even leave radiator in place (or take it out to make more room to work).
There is one thing I'd like call your attention to - when installing new seal, make sure it doesn't sit in exactly the same position as the old one. You want the seal to be at least a millimeter off from the area where old seal was contacting the crankshaft. That way the seal will be riding on the "fresh" surface and not in the groove where old seal was. This suppose to help increase longevity of the replacement seals.
As far as your wife's suggestion to get rid of it - she can't do that to you... What are you going to do without having things to fix?
I just scrolled thru all of my engine rebuild pictures. The teardown sequence looks like::
1. Drain radiator, pull radiator
2, Disconnect and remove belts for AC, alternator, and power steering
3. Disconnect hoses to power steering pump
4. Remove aluminum accessory drive (supports alternator, power steering pump, idler/tensioning pullies, and fan pulley)
5. Remove upper timing belt covers
6. Rotate crank pulley to align timing marks at crank and cams
7. Remove crank bolt and crank pulley
8. Remove lower timing cover
9. Look for leaks...
The crank seal is mounted in the oil pump assembly. I assume if that seal is the culprit, remove the oil pump and then install a new seal. The DNJ oil pump I installed came with this seal already in place, I did not use the FelPro one that came in the engine gasket kit I used.
If a camshaft seal is leaking how are they replaced without cam removal? I replaced them with the cams removed. I used the new FelPro camshaft seals that came in the kit.
Not looking forward to this...
Hunter - I have plenty of other things to fix. Finish the barn/outbuilding so I can purge my house attached garage so I can set it up as a proper shop so I can work on my 'Cuda, kitchen extension, etc.
Last edited by larry4406; Oct 20, 2019 at 12:50 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 483
There is one thing I'd like call your attention to - when installing new seal, make sure it doesn't sit in exactly the same position as the old one. You want the seal to be at least a millimeter off from the area where old seal was contacting the crankshaft. That way the seal will be riding on the "fresh" surface and not in the groove where old seal was. This suppose to help increase longevity of the replacement seals.
As far as your wife's suggestion to get rid of it - she can't do that to you... What are you going to do without having things to fix?
As far as your wife's suggestion to get rid of it - she can't do that to you... What are you going to do without having things to fix?
Thread Starter
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Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 348
From: Northern VA
I replaced the rear cam seals while engine was out. No leaks there (for now....).
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,044
From: Washington State
Larry, the camshaft seal can be replaced without taking out the oil pump. I know it is less convenient to work like that. But to my mind If the leak is at the seal, there is no reason to disrupt the good oil pump gasket and remove the pump. Just pull the seal only.
As far as installation of new seal - yes, the new seal should be positioned slightly differently than original ones. Usually, OEM seals are recessed. Installing new seal flush with the surface will position it so that the sealing surface is slightly in a different position relative to the old seal. I don't think you need to do any more cleaning than just wiping off the cam. Don't use emery cloth, since it can leave the abrasive material which will ruin the seal pretty fast. If you need too, use steel wool to remove baked on dirt and grease.
It is recommended to put a light film of oil on the sealing surface during seal installation to reduce initial friction. I think engine oil might be better than grease, but just a smidgen of ether will do the trick.
As far as all the things you got to do fixing around the house... Sounds like we are in the same club
As far as installation of new seal - yes, the new seal should be positioned slightly differently than original ones. Usually, OEM seals are recessed. Installing new seal flush with the surface will position it so that the sealing surface is slightly in a different position relative to the old seal. I don't think you need to do any more cleaning than just wiping off the cam. Don't use emery cloth, since it can leave the abrasive material which will ruin the seal pretty fast. If you need too, use steel wool to remove baked on dirt and grease.
It is recommended to put a light film of oil on the sealing surface during seal installation to reduce initial friction. I think engine oil might be better than grease, but just a smidgen of ether will do the trick.
As far as all the things you got to do fixing around the house... Sounds like we are in the same club
Last edited by HunterD; Oct 20, 2019 at 11:21 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 483
Hunter....thanks for the clarification on installing the seals....good tip.
Same club, but sounds like Larry has a fine vintage Cuda to wrench on. Wish I still had my 1968 Charger RT 440/4 speed.....still kick myself for selling that one.
Same club, but sounds like Larry has a fine vintage Cuda to wrench on. Wish I still had my 1968 Charger RT 440/4 speed.....still kick myself for selling that one.