UPDATE:

Sorry for the delayed reply, things have been very busy around here and I finally got some time to work not the Montero today.

I got all six plugs out finally including the shredded/melted boots - that was HELL.

I did not know what an engine with no compression sounds like, I happened to see this video on YouTube and now I am certain that my engine has very little to NO compression. My motor sounds LITERALLY identical to this when I try to turn the key.


So should I even really do the compression test? Or is there a different direction I should head? Or do I still need to do the compression test to get the numbers from each cylinder?

Lastly, dumb question, but do the belts need to be installed in order to do the compression test? I removed them to replace with new ones but the new ones have not arrived yet.

The reason the engine in the video has no compression is because the spark plugs are removed. But there is definitely something wrong with the cylinder #4, since that one is capped with the test gauge and should under normal circumstances build up compression. Does your engine sound like this when all spark plugs are in? or when you have the plugs out? As far as the belts go, you only need timing belt to do a compression test and I hope you did not remove it yet. Make sure you have a battery charger available too, because you'll have to do a lot of cranking and that will drain your battery.

I thought you were supposed to remove all the plugs in order to do the compression test? Or do you remove one at a time as you check each cylinder?

My engine sounded just like that even with the spark plugs still in the car..

No I did not remove the timing belt yet I was waiting to remove all of that stuff until I knew I absolutely had to.

I think if you remove all the plugs it will let the engine crank over easier because the other cyl's will have no compression (due to the giant gaping hole). The only cyl that really matters is the one your tester is screwed into.. The tester seals the hole so that one should be able to build up pressure as the engine spins.

That car in the video sounds pretty bad and if yours is doing that with the plugs in that's double bad.

Yes you do remove the spark plugs to do compression test. As it is stated in the previous post - this is to make it easier for starter to crank the engine. If your engine sounds like the video while the spark plugs still in it - you definitely have a problem. Something went really really bad. I'm trying to wrap my head around this and I honestly can't figure it out. I can't imagine all cylinders failing so badly that you completely loose compression. The only thing that can come close to such situation is warping of the heads. Blowing both head gaskets in multiple places (6 or at the very least 4 spots) is less likely but can't be ruled out. In ether case if that's what happened you will be getting coolant and oil mixing in both of these situations. I wonder if it's possible that coolant got into the oil, but since the engine stopped running right away, all the coolant just settled down on the bottom of the oil pan. You can unscrew the oil drain plug and see if you get coolant coming out before the oil starts draining. Check that first - you do not want to whip up the coolant and oil while running compression test. Since you are set up to run compression - go ahead and do it. If nothing else, you should be able to see if the problem is limited to one bank, both banks or to just a few cylinders. But from your description it sounds like you are going to be digging in further into the engine.
Sorry about that.

Alright, well I will drain all of the oil out and dump some cheap oil in there to do the compression test and for the rest of the diagnosing.. once I get everything fixed I'll put better oil in.

I'll do that and the compression test and let you know how it goes.

Anyone know the proper oil weight and capacity for a 98' 3.0?

UPDATE

I picked up some cheap Napa 5W30 oil and a cheap filter just to do the compression test with clean oil. I drained out the old oil and this is what came out - it doesn't look TERRIBLE.... definitely not "frothy"... maybe a tiny bit of coolant, i'm not sure.

It seemed like the Hulk put the oil filter and drain plug in - I almost had to use a breaker bar to get the plug loose!

I will be doing the compression test tonight, I have been so dang busy but I am making time tonight! I will post the results later this evening.

http://i62.tinypic.com/29c2uir.jpg

Looks pretty oily but it's not super scientific or confirmation... Good luck with your test.

UPDATE

The results are finally in from the compression test and they are NOT good! :mad:

I have virtually no compression... this test was done on a cold motor obviously since the vehicle will not start so I expected the numbers to be low, but even for a cold motor these numbers are very low according to my research.

So! Now my options are to start tearing apart the head and checking the head gaskets/piston rings/valves etc.....

Or I can remove all the pulleys and what not to get the timing belt to check if it is snapped or not - Once I rule that out the next option is obviously to start opening the motor more.. so I would rather check the timing belt first I guess unless you guys have any other ideas??

Thanks for all the help with this guys, I really do appreciate it. This project is just taking a while as I am very busy with side jobs etc.

http://i57.tinypic.com/72d7ya.jpg

Oh wow. That is horrible... Sorry to hear that... At least you know why it isn't starting now :P

I think even in the low 100's is bad...

I don't think compression should change that much even if the engine was warm.

I think a broken or off timing belt can affect compression but again I don't know that it can do it this dramatically...

Can't you check the timing with a timing light?

I'd be more worried about deeper damage, I am guessing you will probably need to tear into that engine more but I bet Hunter knows best.

This is really bad. Sorry you are in this situation. Start tearing down to heads. Don't take off the covers just yet. As you proceed with possible head removal, you have to take off the timing belt, so you will see it's condition way before getting too deep in there. If your timing belt is snapped - pray you have a 3.0 liter engine because it is a non-interference type. Almost any other Mitsubishi engine is an interference type and it means valves would be contacting cylinder top and most likely result in an extensive damage/rebuild. Can you find the engine code for your truck?

Actually it looks like a 12 valve 3.0l engine is non-interference, while 24 valve 3.0l is interference type

Thanks for the reply man, how would I know which motor I have? Where is the engine code located?

To find out interference vs. non-interference you have to Google it and sort through a ton of garbage. It would help to know the engine code. You may be able to resolve that from VIN or look for a stamp on the engine. The stamp should be somewhere on the block. Sorry can't help more.

For now, pull the timing covers off and take a look at your timing belt (or what's left of it). Don't panic just yet ;)

I thought the preliminary was the belt was in decent shape and under tension...

You are right.
Can you see if the camshafts spin and rocker arms getting depressed when you turn over the engine?

I could only see the timing belt through the little peep hole access panel.

But you guys said that didn't mean anything and I should still get access to it fully so I am going to try and get access to it tomorrow evening.

Also I did the compression test with the valve covers on so I cannot see if anything is moving.

That's why I said preliminary...

It could still be off some number of teeth or broken it's still worth looking at properly but I wouldn't jump to any conclusions at this point.

Got it, well I'll keep you guys posted tomorrow night on what's going on and if the belt is broken or not.

I'm on the edge of my seat.. It's like watching a horror movie ;P Glad I'm not in it...

UPDATE:

Sorry I have not reported back sooner, I had to fly to Texas with my fiance for a family emergency.

I gained access to the timing belt this afternoon by removing the main front bracket/pulleys etc.

The belt appears to be IN TACT and seems to have plenty of tension...

So if the timing belt is NOT the problem, what is my next step?

Blow head gaskets?
Internal damage?

What would have caused all of this from the get go though?

http://i57.tinypic.com/2zdshzr.jpghttp://i62.tinypic.com/2b7gxt.jpg

Well ain't that a pickle... You got us all stumped. At this point your guess is as good as anyones. You will need to pull the heads and see what it looks like under there. If there is any internal damage - you'll see it. I don't know if you will be able to see a damage to a head gasket (unless it is very obvious). It is possible that the head gaskets had failed. However, I still find it puzzling that both sides could have failed at once... :(

I think at this point I will put things back together and have It towed to a shop.

I don't feel comfortable pulling the heads myself and just need this car fixed.

Thanks for all of the help and I will report back as soon as I know what the problem was/is.

Well that sucks... May want to kiss your wallet goodbye :P

Yeah, It does suck. I just don't have the know how to tear down the heads and replace things etc.

It is what it is I guess!

No don't throw in the towel! You can do it!

:)

In summary, the system won't start, therefore, you cannot see where the coolant is leaking from and while everything looks good you have no compression in cylinders and a few boots were melted.

The only symptom you observed was the coolant (along with loss of power). It could be that the boots were burned from a previous incident.

Have you tried contacting the seller to see if there is any history he can give you that might shed light on this?

Do you have to put it back together to take it in? Seems like a mechanic might take it disassembled, less work for him.

The seller will have nothing to do with me - won't return phone calls etc.
I am assuming he knew about these issues prior to selling me the car.

And yeah I thought about bringing it to my mechanic dis-assembled thus saving him time and saving ME money. I think that is going to be my option.

I'm not sure what else to look for other than removing the heads but I have no idea how to remove those. Is there any write ups?

Tearing apart is usually easier than putting back together. I doubt there is a write up specific to your engine/model but there is a service manual for 30 bucks, or sometimes free online (mitsubishilinks.com). There is usually a rebuild/overhaul section in it and it will tell you the order of how to pull things apart.

It would probably save you a lot of pain if you pulled the engine out.

Rebuild kits are about 500 on rock auto. Piston rings, pistons, bearings, rods, timing belt, gaskets/seals, etc.


Sounds like you're probably fed up with it though... :(

I think fed up is an understatement! ha

There is no way I'm pulling the motor myself, I don't have the tools/hoist etc.

I will be contacting my mechanic in the next week here and let you guys know how it goes!

Feel bad for you being in this situation, but you need to know when to throw in the towel. Like you said - you don't have the tools or know how on further tear down and rebuild. It is good that you have a mechanic who might be able to complete the job that is in front of you.
It sucks when the car sellers pull a fast one on you and then don't even return your call when you are looking or information.
Once you have a word from your mechanic, let us know what he finds. We are all holding our breath.

UPDATE:

I was doing some other small stuff before I took the car to the shop and I pulled a lower coolant line and solid brown coolant started coming out...

I find it odd that when i drained the oil pan, I did not see signs of coolant in the oil though....?

SO!

I guess that means that one, if not both head gaskets are blown. UGH!
Makes sense as to why I had no compression as well.

This really sucks, and I hope that I did not warp or damage any of the internal head components.

Anyone feel like coming to Illinois and helping me do a head gasket?! PLEASE?!

If you pay for my airline ticket - I'll be there and I'll even bring some good PNW craft beer to help along :)

You have no idea how serious I am when I say that would be awesome ha!

I'm going to my mechanic today to ask him for an estimate. I'll let you guys know!

Probably cheaper to buy him a plane ticket :P

Well....

I went to my mechanic and he quoted me roughly $1,800 including parts and labor. That also includes having the heads sent out and machined/pressure cleaned/inspected etc..

I only paid $1,600 for the car!

So now I need to make a decision on junking the car.. or maybe even parting out to recoup some of my money and then buying another car.

It is a tough decision. However, with older vehicles you can't compare purchase price with the cost of repairs. For example - the cost of the set of tires I need for one of my rigs is higher than the price I paid for the car :) You have to make your decision based on why you wanted this specific vehicle and go from there. Having heads checked is a must and you can do it when you pull them. In reality, you only need to machine them if they actually warped. Mechanic will do it because it's a good insurance policy for him and he is not the one paying for it. However, machining cost is not really that high. Call couple machine shops around and find out how much they'd charge for it. I'm pretty sure that most of the cost you've been quoted is the labor. That is the unfortunate reality of life when you have to have a mechanic working on it - they do need to make a living like all of us.

Thanks for the reply man, and yeah I get what you mean and fully understand/agree.

I need to sleep on it I think..

Do you know of any articles/write ups on pulling the heads? I have never done it and am told I need special tools and spring compressors etc..

There are some good links on the sticky posts right at the top of Montero board. You should be able to find links to PDF manuals there (it may take some looking but they are there). You will not need spring compressor, unless you are removing/reinstalling valves. If you are doing just the head gaskets, the head will come out with all valves attached and you do not need to do anything about them. You will need to re-time the engine (new timing belt, and tensioner would be a good idea at this point).
As far as removing heads - when you took off the valve covers, you were more than half way there. At that point you need to remove few bolt to take out the camshafts and then 8 large bolt and you have the head off. As far as tools you MUST have - its a torque wrench and specs for the torque and bolt sequence when you are installing the heads. Otherwise you may warp the heads during the install. Depending on the design of the timing belt tensioner you may or may not need a funky little pre-tensioner. People have done the timing belt without it but it is not expensive ($15 or so online).
BTW, I am serious about helping. I will have some time off at the end of October beginning of November and I'd be willing to come over to help.

Thanks for the information man and all of your help throughout this entire situation - I really do appreciate your time!

I slept on it, and discussed things with the wife this morning and I think I am going to part it out and then scrap it for whatever then junkyard will give me.

Given the fact that the head gasket blew while on the highway at around 75mph who knows what other sort of internal damage it could have done.

I will be putting up a part out/sale thread soon, so if anyone needs parts just message me!

David