Has anybody experienced jerking movement when shifting from reverse to drive?
#1
04-30-2010, 08:01 AM
Has anybody experienced jerking movement when shifting from reverse to drive?
This morning I backed out my Outlander ES out of the drive way. I applied the brakes and came to a complete stop for 2-3 seconds. Then I put the car in drive and stepped on the gas lightly (in my opinion). The car then made 3 or 4 jerking motions as it was switching gears. I don't think I was accellerating too quickly. However, I can't think of any other reason why the car would do this. It just happened this morning.
I have not had any problems since this morning. Should I have it looked at?
I have not had any problems since this morning. Should I have it looked at?
#2
04-30-2010, 08:40 AM
I find on cold mornings the car "jerks" from a dead stop on level ground. It feels like a downshift (after coming out of 1st) or high acceleration for a few seconds then the computer settles back into a normal gear and acceleration.
I know very few people who come to a complete stop to change between R and D which would put a bit more load on the drive system to overcome the reverse roll. But in normal use this shouldn't be an issue - it isn't *that* much force - definitely no more than climbing a steep hill.
If I baby it off the line I can stop it from doing that but I've just learned it's going to happen. Once everything warms up in a minute or so it won't do this any more. Odds are you won't be able to duplicate at a dealership unless you leave the car over night in the fall/winter/spring.
I think of it as kind of the same thing as when driving up a hill with cruise control on, more power is needed to keep the same speed because there is more load in the system (cold components have more friction). Then shortly after giving more power the car realizes it's over shooting the speed and backs off giving a "jerky response". In control theory I think it's called "integral windup".
I'm not "gunning" it off the line - just a normal acceleration.
If you feel it's a safety thing - way worse than the computer choosing the wrong gear for a short period of time - bring it in to be looked at. Otherwise mention it at your next service interval, and/or write a letter to Mitsubishi asking the question.
Cheers,
Chris
I know very few people who come to a complete stop to change between R and D which would put a bit more load on the drive system to overcome the reverse roll. But in normal use this shouldn't be an issue - it isn't *that* much force - definitely no more than climbing a steep hill.
If I baby it off the line I can stop it from doing that but I've just learned it's going to happen. Once everything warms up in a minute or so it won't do this any more. Odds are you won't be able to duplicate at a dealership unless you leave the car over night in the fall/winter/spring.
I think of it as kind of the same thing as when driving up a hill with cruise control on, more power is needed to keep the same speed because there is more load in the system (cold components have more friction). Then shortly after giving more power the car realizes it's over shooting the speed and backs off giving a "jerky response". In control theory I think it's called "integral windup".
I'm not "gunning" it off the line - just a normal acceleration.
If you feel it's a safety thing - way worse than the computer choosing the wrong gear for a short period of time - bring it in to be looked at. Otherwise mention it at your next service interval, and/or write a letter to Mitsubishi asking the question.
Cheers,
Chris
#3
05-01-2010, 07:38 AM
Switching gears from R to D
So you're saying that stopping completely before switching from reverse to drive can put stress on the car? I've never heard of that. Could you show me a web site that says this? Not that I don't trust you, I just want to verify that this is true.
I was always told that you should stop completely before going from reverse to drive becuase otherwise you could ruin your transmission.
I beleive this because one day, I was backing out of my drive way and was in a hurry and I didn't come to a complete stop from reverse and put the car in drive and I got this sudden whiplash and heard a loud bang. Lucklily I didn't damage the car. But, ever since then I've been cautious about stopping completely before going from reverse to Drive.
I was always told that you should stop completely before going from reverse to drive becuase otherwise you could ruin your transmission.
I beleive this because one day, I was backing out of my drive way and was in a hurry and I didn't come to a complete stop from reverse and put the car in drive and I got this sudden whiplash and heard a loud bang. Lucklily I didn't damage the car. But, ever since then I've been cautious about stopping completely before going from reverse to Drive.
#4
05-01-2010, 07:52 AM
To further prove my point....
I found this on another forum.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by moto1221
Hello,
I was wondering if anyone else is experiencing this issue on their 2010 RX 350 Basically if going into reverse and switching into drive without coming to a complete stop my RX 350 will consistently stall. I brought it to the dealer and they were able to produce the same results but told me you must come to a complete stop before shifting into drive which to me is BS. I have owned many vehicles and my driving has not changed, I would believe that everyone who backs up might roll a little before shifting into drive. Anyway
I'm calling corporate to furhter investigate, but in the meantime I was wondering if anyone can try this on their 2010 R 350 to see if it's a design issue or just happening to mine.
Thanks
Trying to find a way to say this nicely but I can't... it is idiotic to shift an automatic transmission while the car is rolling in the opposite direction. Stall or not, talk to any mechanic and they'll tell you it's just plain stupid.
If you want to do that... buy a car that's available in a stick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moto1221
Hello,
I was wondering if anyone else is experiencing this issue on their 2010 RX 350 Basically if going into reverse and switching into drive without coming to a complete stop my RX 350 will consistently stall. I brought it to the dealer and they were able to produce the same results but told me you must come to a complete stop before shifting into drive which to me is BS. I have owned many vehicles and my driving has not changed, I would believe that everyone who backs up might roll a little before shifting into drive. Anyway
I'm calling corporate to furhter investigate, but in the meantime I was wondering if anyone can try this on their 2010 R 350 to see if it's a design issue or just happening to mine.
Thanks
Trying to find a way to say this nicely but I can't... it is idiotic to shift an automatic transmission while the car is rolling in the opposite direction. Stall or not, talk to any mechanic and they'll tell you it's just plain stupid.
If you want to do that... buy a car that's available in a stick.
The reply to this person's post is at the bottom. He says it's "retarded move" for anybody to switch from reverse to drive without coming to a complete stop first. Those are his words.
Originally Posted by moto1221
Hello,
I was wondering if anyone else is experiencing this issue on their 2010 RX 350 Basically if going into reverse and switching into drive without coming to a complete stop my RX 350 will consistently stall. I brought it to the dealer and they were able to produce the same results but told me you must come to a complete stop before shifting into drive which to me is BS. I have owned many vehicles and my driving has not changed, I would believe that everyone who backs up might roll a little before shifting into drive. Anyway
I'm calling corporate to furhter investigate, but in the meantime I was wondering if anyone can try this on their 2010 R 350 to see if it's a design issue or just happening to mine.
Thanks
Reply from another user:
Trying to find a way to say this nicely but I can't... it is a retarded move to shift an automatic transmission while the car is rolling in the opposite direction. Stall or not, talk to any mechanic and they'll tell you it's just plain stupid.
If you want to do that... buy a car that's available in a stick (manual transmission).
Quote:
Originally Posted by moto1221
Hello,
I was wondering if anyone else is experiencing this issue on their 2010 RX 350 Basically if going into reverse and switching into drive without coming to a complete stop my RX 350 will consistently stall. I brought it to the dealer and they were able to produce the same results but told me you must come to a complete stop before shifting into drive which to me is BS. I have owned many vehicles and my driving has not changed, I would believe that everyone who backs up might roll a little before shifting into drive. Anyway
I'm calling corporate to furhter investigate, but in the meantime I was wondering if anyone can try this on their 2010 R 350 to see if it's a design issue or just happening to mine.
Thanks
Trying to find a way to say this nicely but I can't... it is idiotic to shift an automatic transmission while the car is rolling in the opposite direction. Stall or not, talk to any mechanic and they'll tell you it's just plain stupid.
If you want to do that... buy a car that's available in a stick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moto1221
Hello,
I was wondering if anyone else is experiencing this issue on their 2010 RX 350 Basically if going into reverse and switching into drive without coming to a complete stop my RX 350 will consistently stall. I brought it to the dealer and they were able to produce the same results but told me you must come to a complete stop before shifting into drive which to me is BS. I have owned many vehicles and my driving has not changed, I would believe that everyone who backs up might roll a little before shifting into drive. Anyway
I'm calling corporate to furhter investigate, but in the meantime I was wondering if anyone can try this on their 2010 R 350 to see if it's a design issue or just happening to mine.
Thanks
Trying to find a way to say this nicely but I can't... it is idiotic to shift an automatic transmission while the car is rolling in the opposite direction. Stall or not, talk to any mechanic and they'll tell you it's just plain stupid.
If you want to do that... buy a car that's available in a stick.
The reply to this person's post is at the bottom. He says it's "retarded move" for anybody to switch from reverse to drive without coming to a complete stop first. Those are his words.
Originally Posted by moto1221
Hello,
I was wondering if anyone else is experiencing this issue on their 2010 RX 350 Basically if going into reverse and switching into drive without coming to a complete stop my RX 350 will consistently stall. I brought it to the dealer and they were able to produce the same results but told me you must come to a complete stop before shifting into drive which to me is BS. I have owned many vehicles and my driving has not changed, I would believe that everyone who backs up might roll a little before shifting into drive. Anyway
I'm calling corporate to furhter investigate, but in the meantime I was wondering if anyone can try this on their 2010 R 350 to see if it's a design issue or just happening to mine.
Thanks
Reply from another user:
Trying to find a way to say this nicely but I can't... it is a retarded move to shift an automatic transmission while the car is rolling in the opposite direction. Stall or not, talk to any mechanic and they'll tell you it's just plain stupid.
If you want to do that... buy a car that's available in a stick (manual transmission).
#5
05-03-2010, 10:13 AM
Let me be a little more clear.
In my experience:
Until the vehicle reaches operating temperature the transmission may feel jerky during acceleration and engine braking - aka down shifting. This behaviour seems to be related to how cold the overnight temperatures were.
Cheers,
Chris
I'm sorry I mentioned rolling stops during gear changes. You clearly stated you did not execute a rolling stop during the gear change. I just found it hard to believe.
What I was attempting to imply is that the engine/transmission has to work harder to overcome the slight backwards movement of the vehicle during a rolling stop. This extra work might expose the jerky feeling more.
It is best to come to a complete stop, but I would bet 90% of automatic drivers use rolling stops (almost stopped, but not completely) when changing from R to D.
In my mind I think a rolling stop gear change is roughly equivalent to starting a vehicle from a dead stop on an incline. But it depends on how fast you are moving in reverse, etc. You should be almost stopped - ie the speedometer reading zero.
I'm sure the manual would say to come to a complete stop. Also probably something about not going into drive unless your foot is firmly applying the brake.
Stress does not necessarily mean damage. Climbing hills and towing a trailer are normal uses that also put more stress on your vehicle.
In my experience:
Until the vehicle reaches operating temperature the transmission may feel jerky during acceleration and engine braking - aka down shifting. This behaviour seems to be related to how cold the overnight temperatures were.
Cheers,
Chris
I'm sorry I mentioned rolling stops during gear changes. You clearly stated you did not execute a rolling stop during the gear change. I just found it hard to believe.
What I was attempting to imply is that the engine/transmission has to work harder to overcome the slight backwards movement of the vehicle during a rolling stop. This extra work might expose the jerky feeling more.
It is best to come to a complete stop, but I would bet 90% of automatic drivers use rolling stops (almost stopped, but not completely) when changing from R to D.
In my mind I think a rolling stop gear change is roughly equivalent to starting a vehicle from a dead stop on an incline. But it depends on how fast you are moving in reverse, etc. You should be almost stopped - ie the speedometer reading zero.
I'm sure the manual would say to come to a complete stop. Also probably something about not going into drive unless your foot is firmly applying the brake.
Stress does not necessarily mean damage. Climbing hills and towing a trailer are normal uses that also put more stress on your vehicle.
#6
05-04-2010, 08:17 AM
Ok, I understand what you are saying about stress on the engine by not changing gears at a rolling stop. Rolling stop means that the gas pedal is not being touched but you are moving backwards and 1 mph or less. I get it. Do you think these drivers know that they are reducing stress on the engine (like you say) or are they doing this because they are too impatient to stop completely? I wonder....
Also, I beleive you are right about the cold weather causing the Automatic transmission to have problems switching gears. I think I'll let it warm up for a minute or 2 next time before.
Also, I beleive you are right about the cold weather causing the Automatic transmission to have problems switching gears. I think I'll let it warm up for a minute or 2 next time before.
#7
05-04-2010, 11:25 AM
In fact, the onboard "computer" will do that for you. It will modify shifting patterns until the transmission is at working temp.
#9
05-05-2010, 10:50 AM
ES is a CVT?
Isn't the ES a 4cyl with the CVT transmission. If that's correct, it doesn't "switch gears" like a normal Automatic with regular gears. It has two pulleys with a belt between them that varies the diameter of each pulley to create different ratios. It must also have some type of torque converter or clutch to actually engage the motion when you put it into gear.
I would have this checked by your dealer if you have the CVT. It's a much different beast than a regular AT.
One more thing. If you have a 2010, I believe they have implemented a "hill start" feature. That means if you are engaging a forward gear, the car itself will try to keep you from rolling backwards. If you do the "rolling change" of reverse to drive, the "hill start" may be kicking in to try to keep you from rolling back.
I would have this checked by your dealer if you have the CVT. It's a much different beast than a regular AT.
One more thing. If you have a 2010, I believe they have implemented a "hill start" feature. That means if you are engaging a forward gear, the car itself will try to keep you from rolling backwards. If you do the "rolling change" of reverse to drive, the "hill start" may be kicking in to try to keep you from rolling back.
This morning I backed out my Outlander ES out of the drive way. I applied the brakes and came to a complete stop for 2-3 seconds. Then I put the car in drive and stepped on the gas lightly (in my opinion). The car then made 3 or 4 jerking motions as it was switching gears. I don't think I was accellerating too quickly. However, I can't think of any other reason why the car would do this. It just happened this morning.
I have not had any problems since this morning. Should I have it looked at?
I have not had any problems since this morning. Should I have it looked at?
#10
05-05-2010, 11:16 AM
Yeah, the CVT probably has a physical clutch which causes the stall when doing that in combination with the hill start assist I'm guessing (or maybe even without the hill feature). The transmission in question is this one:
http://www.jatco.co.jp/ENGLISH/CVT/JF011E.html
You may want to ask owners of the others cars that use it if they have a similar problem.
I think doing what you do will do damage to one of the clutches in the transmission, and put undue stress on the belts when the car engages. Perhaps they made it stall on purpose as a safety feature?
In a classic automatic transmission (on LS and XLS/GT), you should be able to do what you want as the torque converter is a liquid and lock up doesn't occur until 3rd gear.
http://www.jatco.co.jp/ENGLISH/CVT/JF011E.html
You may want to ask owners of the others cars that use it if they have a similar problem.
I think doing what you do will do damage to one of the clutches in the transmission, and put undue stress on the belts when the car engages. Perhaps they made it stall on purpose as a safety feature?
In a classic automatic transmission (on LS and XLS/GT), you should be able to do what you want as the torque converter is a liquid and lock up doesn't occur until 3rd gear.