Why would they have you turn the crank without the belt tensioner released????
#1
09-04-2017, 06:12 PM
Why would they have you turn the crank without the belt tensioner released????
Crank slipped two teeth!!! Now everything is out of alignment and I have to take it all apart and hope I fix it right! Between their asinine tensioner "bleeding" procedure, impossible "stiffness check", Unicorn blood ATF, rust prone everything expect the body, and rarity of parts I've about had it before I've even had a chance to drive this thing!
**** YOU MITSUBISHI!!!! I'LL NEVER BUY ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR VEHICLES!!!
**** YOU MITSUBISHI!!!! I'LL NEVER BUY ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR VEHICLES!!!
#2
09-05-2017, 11:59 AM
Because, if there is slack in the belt. you could be a tooth or two off, which is no bueno. You turn the crank just a bit to get tension, re-check your timing marks, then release the tensioner.
#3
09-06-2017, 08:47 PM
It was "no bueno" after it jumped the teeth that's for sure. I turned it back and it jumped them back and I pulled the pin then. I cranked the belt around to where I could see the teeth and they looked ok. To anyone doing their belt, I would suggest painting the belt teeth on either side of the cam pulley teeth with the timing mark, and on the bottom of the crank pulley on the old belt, and transfer those marks to the new belt so you know the belt is installed correctly, and pull the tensioner pin before moving the crank. Then, if something does turn out to be wrong after you check it, just go through the trouble of removing the tensioner and recompressing the pin.
Also, it seems impossible to check the tensioner gap the way they show. The inside jaws of my standard 6" calipers aren't long enough to reach, plus the axal is in the way. Just another screwed up thing from this company.
Also, it seems impossible to check the tensioner gap the way they show. The inside jaws of my standard 6" calipers aren't long enough to reach, plus the axal is in the way. Just another screwed up thing from this company.
#4
09-07-2017, 12:06 PM
careful with painting teeth based on the old belt, if the old belt stretches at all, you can be off a tooth or two. you could count teeth on the tension side of the belt, but that would suck to count that many.
#5
09-15-2017, 10:12 PM
True. When I transfers the marks over I matched the belt all the way around back to the beginning. The old belt was in remarkable shape showing no wear other than faded lettering at 164000 miles.
#6
06-25-2022, 09:09 AM
Crank slipped two teeth!!! Now everything is out of alignment and I have to take it all apart and hope I fix it right! Between their asinine tensioner "bleeding" procedure, impossible "stiffness check", Unicorn blood ATF, rust prone everything expect the body, and rarity of parts I've about had it before I've even had a chance to drive this thing!
**** YOU MITSUBISHI!!!! I'LL NEVER BUY ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR VEHICLES!!!
**** YOU MITSUBISHI!!!! I'LL NEVER BUY ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR VEHICLES!!!
It was "no bueno" after it jumped the teeth that's for sure. I turned it back and it jumped them back and I pulled the pin then. I cranked the belt around to where I could see the teeth and they looked ok. To anyone doing their belt, I would suggest painting the belt teeth on either side of the cam pulley teeth with the timing mark, and on the bottom of the crank pulley on the old belt, and transfer those marks to the new belt so you know the belt is installed correctly, and pull the tensioner pin before moving the crank. Then, if something does turn out to be wrong after you check it, just go through the trouble of removing the tensioner and recompressing the pin.
Also, it seems impossible to check the tensioner gap the way they show. The inside jaws of my standard 6" calipers aren't long enough to reach, plus the axal is in the way. Just another screwed up thing from this company.
Also, it seems impossible to check the tensioner gap the way they show. The inside jaws of my standard 6" calipers aren't long enough to reach, plus the axal is in the way. Just another screwed up thing from this company.
I have all OEM parts for the timing belt part of the job, except for idler pulley, which will now be Gates. I bought the OEM parts 3 years ago, including the tensioner cylinder-like device that maintains pressure on the tensioner pulley. The tensioner has had the pin in it the entire time. Here's the question I'd like answered. Do I have to do anything with the tensioner other than install it under the tensioner at the correct time and pull the pin? Specifically, do I have to do the procedure that Mitsubishi recommends in the procedure like compressing it in a small press, etc.?
BTW, I intend to mark the original belt at the timing marks on the cam and crank pulley and transfer those marks (by both aligning the belts and counting the teeth) to the new belt, so that when I install the new belt its teeth will go exactly where they're supposed to go.
I'd appreciate any helpful advice that those of you who have done this job could give me. Luckily I'm retired, so I have all the time I need to do this job without any outside pressure.
Thanks.
#7
06-25-2022, 03:19 PM
I'm going to do mine too since mine is built July 2011 and now is almost July 2022, I am leaning towards DIY because of the crank pulley bolt needing special tightening. Plus I don't want to pay $1200 (to be honest I have not gotten a quote yet) have 5 or 6 steps probably take an hour or two for an experienced dealership tech but they are charging the customer many hours. I looked at my car it's relatively spacious in the area for what it is. Just need to put a jack under the oil pan. But the oil pan is barely flat on these engines and no hooks from the top!
I do not know what this topic is about. No where (video or FSM) did they tell you to turn the engine WITHOUT the tensioner in place and the pin pulled.
The video tells you to turn it counter clockwise 1/4 turn but with the tensioner pin pulled first. The FSM says never turn it counter clockwise. I watched youtube from the mechanic "fixing cars and stuff" He puts the belt on carefully and never turn it backwards and he seem very experienced with the V6 engines. Now the "training" video seems really old but the later 6B31 engine have even higher compression and more interference. I think I am just going to turn it clockwise 2 times, and check again after 15 minutes or whatever it says in the manual.
I notice a lot of people have bad experience with Mitsu timing belt jobs, skipping and bending valves. I think older mitsu are tricky because they have balance shafts that have extra belts, and the eccentric tensioner pulley that you set first and no one wants to buy the tool to set the tension.
The Outlander V6 is actually the first mitsu I have seen that does not have the eccentric pulley, you really only pull the tensioner pin is what I have found. That makes it relatively fool proof, less risky, like a toyota, but correct me if I am wrong.
If you transfer the marks it should be pretty good, but I am not sure if that does anything. Because either the cam gear will like up, or it does not. But transferring the marks should let you put the correct valley of the belt against the cam gear as you put the belt on, because if you don't know how much tension to initially put the belt on, you may go off a tooth. I think I would get a helper and hold a wrench on the firewall side cam gear so it won't jump, see below.
I think the biggest risk is the cam gear on the firewall side is spring loaded and it may jump out of position. I have watched many videos and no one shows what to do in case of a mishap while installing the belt. The training video does tell you a little what to do. They show that the right side cam gear being jammed against the pistons, I have noted that the timing mark on the cam gear is at around 4 o clock, so it's a good jump. They tell you to counter clockwise the timing gear by 4 teeth, but the video actually moved it 3 teeth ( which I would follow ). Anyway because of the timing gear having 23 teeth this is about 47 BTDC to avoid pistons hitting the valves. Then they show you can turn the cams however you want. In Toyota and most engines it is believed turning to 60 BTDC you can achieve the same safety. Anyway I think I would follow the video to move it back 3 teeth should I run into this situation.
I have only 50k miles and I am thinking of replacing only the belt. I think I probably should buy an tensioner because next time the car will be 20 years old but the tensioner cost a lot and I don't want to buy a $30 alibaba quality one. I do not know if you need to bleed it or not. Gates instruction says you must bleed it. It is important to put the tensioner vertical before installation whether you bleed it or not. I 100% believe mechanics in a hurry just slap that on and pull the pin.
I have not seen ccernst come in for a few months hopefully he's ok and he will chime in.
I do not know what this topic is about. No where (video or FSM) did they tell you to turn the engine WITHOUT the tensioner in place and the pin pulled.
The video tells you to turn it counter clockwise 1/4 turn but with the tensioner pin pulled first. The FSM says never turn it counter clockwise. I watched youtube from the mechanic "fixing cars and stuff" He puts the belt on carefully and never turn it backwards and he seem very experienced with the V6 engines. Now the "training" video seems really old but the later 6B31 engine have even higher compression and more interference. I think I am just going to turn it clockwise 2 times, and check again after 15 minutes or whatever it says in the manual.
I notice a lot of people have bad experience with Mitsu timing belt jobs, skipping and bending valves. I think older mitsu are tricky because they have balance shafts that have extra belts, and the eccentric tensioner pulley that you set first and no one wants to buy the tool to set the tension.
The Outlander V6 is actually the first mitsu I have seen that does not have the eccentric pulley, you really only pull the tensioner pin is what I have found. That makes it relatively fool proof, less risky, like a toyota, but correct me if I am wrong.
If you transfer the marks it should be pretty good, but I am not sure if that does anything. Because either the cam gear will like up, or it does not. But transferring the marks should let you put the correct valley of the belt against the cam gear as you put the belt on, because if you don't know how much tension to initially put the belt on, you may go off a tooth. I think I would get a helper and hold a wrench on the firewall side cam gear so it won't jump, see below.
I think the biggest risk is the cam gear on the firewall side is spring loaded and it may jump out of position. I have watched many videos and no one shows what to do in case of a mishap while installing the belt. The training video does tell you a little what to do. They show that the right side cam gear being jammed against the pistons, I have noted that the timing mark on the cam gear is at around 4 o clock, so it's a good jump. They tell you to counter clockwise the timing gear by 4 teeth, but the video actually moved it 3 teeth ( which I would follow ). Anyway because of the timing gear having 23 teeth this is about 47 BTDC to avoid pistons hitting the valves. Then they show you can turn the cams however you want. In Toyota and most engines it is believed turning to 60 BTDC you can achieve the same safety. Anyway I think I would follow the video to move it back 3 teeth should I run into this situation.
I have only 50k miles and I am thinking of replacing only the belt. I think I probably should buy an tensioner because next time the car will be 20 years old but the tensioner cost a lot and I don't want to buy a $30 alibaba quality one. I do not know if you need to bleed it or not. Gates instruction says you must bleed it. It is important to put the tensioner vertical before installation whether you bleed it or not. I 100% believe mechanics in a hurry just slap that on and pull the pin.
I have not seen ccernst come in for a few months hopefully he's ok and he will chime in.
Last edited by OutlanderGT; 06-25-2022 at 03:29 PM.
#8
06-25-2022, 06:39 PM
I'm going to do mine too since mine is built July 2011 and now is almost July 2022, I am leaning towards DIY because of the crank pulley bolt needing special tightening. Plus I don't want to pay $1200 (to be honest I have not gotten a quote yet) have 5 or 6 steps probably take an hour or two for an experienced dealership tech but they are charging the customer many hours. I looked at my car it's relatively spacious in the area for what it is. Just need to put a jack under the oil pan. But the oil pan is barely flat on these engines and no hooks from the top!
I do not know what this topic is about. No where (video or FSM) did they tell you to turn the engine WITHOUT the tensioner in place and the pin pulled.
The video tells you to turn it counter clockwise 1/4 turn but with the tensioner pin pulled first. The FSM says never turn it counter clockwise. I watched youtube from the mechanic "fixing cars and stuff" He puts the belt on carefully and never turn it backwards and he seem very experienced with the V6 engines. Now the "training" video seems really old but the later 6B31 engine have even higher compression and more interference. I think I am just going to turn it clockwise 2 times, and check again after 15 minutes or whatever it says in the manual.
I notice a lot of people have bad experience with Mitsu timing belt jobs, skipping and bending valves. I think older mitsu are tricky because they have balance shafts that have extra belts, and the eccentric tensioner pulley that you set first and no one wants to buy the tool to set the tension.
The Outlander V6 is actually the first mitsu I have seen that does not have the eccentric pulley, you really only pull the tensioner pin is what I have found. That makes it relatively fool proof, less risky, like a toyota, but correct me if I am wrong.
If you transfer the marks it should be pretty good, but I am not sure if that does anything. Because either the cam gear will like up, or it does not. But transferring the marks should let you put the correct valley of the belt against the cam gear as you put the belt on, because if you don't know how much tension to initially put the belt on, you may go off a tooth. I think I would get a helper and hold a wrench on the firewall side cam gear so it won't jump, see below.
I think the biggest risk is the cam gear on the firewall side is spring loaded and it may jump out of position. I have watched many videos and no one shows what to do in case of a mishap while installing the belt. The training video does tell you a little what to do. They show that the right side cam gear being jammed against the pistons, I have noted that the timing mark on the cam gear is at around 4 o clock, so it's a good jump. They tell you to counter clockwise the timing gear by 4 teeth, but the video actually moved it 3 teeth ( which I would follow ). Anyway because of the timing gear having 23 teeth this is about 47 BTDC to avoid pistons hitting the valves. Then they show you can turn the cams however you want. In Toyota and most engines it is believed turning to 60 BTDC you can achieve the same safety. Anyway I think I would follow the video to move it back 3 teeth should I run into this situation.
I have only 50k miles and I am thinking of replacing only the belt. I think I probably should buy an tensioner because next time the car will be 20 years old but the tensioner cost a lot and I don't want to buy a $30 alibaba quality one. I do not know if you need to bleed it or not. Gates instruction says you must bleed it. It is important to put the tensioner vertical before installation whether you bleed it or not. I 100% believe mechanics in a hurry just slap that on and pull the pin.
I have not seen ccernst come in for a few months hopefully he's ok and he will chime in.
I do not know what this topic is about. No where (video or FSM) did they tell you to turn the engine WITHOUT the tensioner in place and the pin pulled.
The video tells you to turn it counter clockwise 1/4 turn but with the tensioner pin pulled first. The FSM says never turn it counter clockwise. I watched youtube from the mechanic "fixing cars and stuff" He puts the belt on carefully and never turn it backwards and he seem very experienced with the V6 engines. Now the "training" video seems really old but the later 6B31 engine have even higher compression and more interference. I think I am just going to turn it clockwise 2 times, and check again after 15 minutes or whatever it says in the manual.
I notice a lot of people have bad experience with Mitsu timing belt jobs, skipping and bending valves. I think older mitsu are tricky because they have balance shafts that have extra belts, and the eccentric tensioner pulley that you set first and no one wants to buy the tool to set the tension.
The Outlander V6 is actually the first mitsu I have seen that does not have the eccentric pulley, you really only pull the tensioner pin is what I have found. That makes it relatively fool proof, less risky, like a toyota, but correct me if I am wrong.
If you transfer the marks it should be pretty good, but I am not sure if that does anything. Because either the cam gear will like up, or it does not. But transferring the marks should let you put the correct valley of the belt against the cam gear as you put the belt on, because if you don't know how much tension to initially put the belt on, you may go off a tooth. I think I would get a helper and hold a wrench on the firewall side cam gear so it won't jump, see below.
I think the biggest risk is the cam gear on the firewall side is spring loaded and it may jump out of position. I have watched many videos and no one shows what to do in case of a mishap while installing the belt. The training video does tell you a little what to do. They show that the right side cam gear being jammed against the pistons, I have noted that the timing mark on the cam gear is at around 4 o clock, so it's a good jump. They tell you to counter clockwise the timing gear by 4 teeth, but the video actually moved it 3 teeth ( which I would follow ). Anyway because of the timing gear having 23 teeth this is about 47 BTDC to avoid pistons hitting the valves. Then they show you can turn the cams however you want. In Toyota and most engines it is believed turning to 60 BTDC you can achieve the same safety. Anyway I think I would follow the video to move it back 3 teeth should I run into this situation.
I have only 50k miles and I am thinking of replacing only the belt. I think I probably should buy an tensioner because next time the car will be 20 years old but the tensioner cost a lot and I don't want to buy a $30 alibaba quality one. I do not know if you need to bleed it or not. Gates instruction says you must bleed it. It is important to put the tensioner vertical before installation whether you bleed it or not. I 100% believe mechanics in a hurry just slap that on and pull the pin.
I have not seen ccernst come in for a few months hopefully he's ok and he will chime in.
I believe that it is the crank that, if necessary because cam pulleys are not quite right, can be turned CCW 4 teeth, and then the belt on the cams adjusted slightly, but maybe I'm wrong on that.
Transferring the timing marks on the OEM belt to the new one is a good idea because when the new belt's correctly marked hill or valley is placed on the cam pulleys (and under the idler pulley) you absolutely know that the rotational relationship between those two pulleys MUST be correct. When the belt is then placed on the crank gear in the right marked spot, that one, too, MUST be in the correct spot, regardless of how loose the belt is hanging. Then when the belt is placed on top of the tensioner pulley and the tensioner cylinder is installed underneath the tensioner pulley and the pin is pulled, as long as no tooth has been jumped on the crank or two cam pulleys, the belt MUST be installed and "timed" correctly.
I wish you knew whether the bleeding procedure is necessary when installing a brand new tensioner. Somehow I have to determine with certainty what has to be done with the new unit.
As I said in my earlier post, I am going to replace the cam and cran seals. There's a "special" tool for this purpose, but I'd rather not buy fairly expensive tools that I'm never going to use again. Here's a video in which the owner of a 3.0l 6 cyclinder fabricates two tools out of white plastic pipe to push in the seals using the timing pulley bolts. I'm probably going to go this route.
The power steering pump on our vehicle does not have either a tensioner or idler pulley. I have bought a so-called "stretch-fit" Gates belt. I assume that the belt is placed over the crank pulley correctly, then the bottom of the belt is placed correctly on the groves on the bottom of the power steering pulley and a zip tie is installed on the belt and pulley to prevent the belt from slipping off. Then the crank is rotated CW. As the crank rotates, the top of the belt is pulled by the crank as the bottom of the belt is loosened. The zip tie holds the belt on the pump pulley as it rides up to the top of the pulley. Voila, belt on pulley. Is this the correct way to do this, or does one have to monkey around with the pump?
Thanks again, GT.
#9
06-25-2022, 07:03 PM
The steering belt uses a special tool to roll it on and off but it's a special piece of plastic.
But you can achieve the same effect with a piece of plastic maybe from a milk jug. The idea is to derail the belt.
I hate doing seals because I am afraid of scratching something while picking it out. Personally I had a heck of time pulling the timing gear off other cars. I think your miles is somewhat low, if it is not leaking I would leave alone. But I understand wanting to do everything "while in there". Maybe it's just me but cars I have owned leaked at the rear seal first.
If you have the seals you can try to find the correct PVC pipe to use as a driver. Sometimes a large socket of the right size also work.
I am just dealing with a way to take off and tighten the crank bolt the proper way, I will probably order the mitsu tool or make one with scrap metal.
But you can achieve the same effect with a piece of plastic maybe from a milk jug. The idea is to derail the belt.
I hate doing seals because I am afraid of scratching something while picking it out. Personally I had a heck of time pulling the timing gear off other cars. I think your miles is somewhat low, if it is not leaking I would leave alone. But I understand wanting to do everything "while in there". Maybe it's just me but cars I have owned leaked at the rear seal first.
If you have the seals you can try to find the correct PVC pipe to use as a driver. Sometimes a large socket of the right size also work.
I am just dealing with a way to take off and tighten the crank bolt the proper way, I will probably order the mitsu tool or make one with scrap metal.
#10
06-25-2022, 09:43 PM
The steering belt uses a special tool to roll it on and off but it's a special piece of plastic.
But you can achieve the same effect with a piece of plastic maybe from a milk jug. The idea is to derail the belt.
I hate doing seals because I am afraid of scratching something while picking it out. Personally I had a heck of time pulling the timing gear off other cars. I think your miles is somewhat low, if it is not leaking I would leave alone. But I understand wanting to do everything "while in there". Maybe it's just me but cars I have owned leaked at the rear seal first.
If you have the seals you can try to find the correct PVC pipe to use as a driver. Sometimes a large socket of the right size also work.
I am just dealing with a way to take off and tighten the crank bolt the proper way, I will probably order the mitsu tool or make one with scrap metal.
But you can achieve the same effect with a piece of plastic maybe from a milk jug. The idea is to derail the belt.
I hate doing seals because I am afraid of scratching something while picking it out. Personally I had a heck of time pulling the timing gear off other cars. I think your miles is somewhat low, if it is not leaking I would leave alone. But I understand wanting to do everything "while in there". Maybe it's just me but cars I have owned leaked at the rear seal first.
If you have the seals you can try to find the correct PVC pipe to use as a driver. Sometimes a large socket of the right size also work.
I am just dealing with a way to take off and tighten the crank bolt the proper way, I will probably order the mitsu tool or make one with scrap metal.
https://mitsubishi.service-solutions...ND-YOKE-HOLDER
Alternatively, at 4 minutes and 18 seconds into the following video, the guy details a long, DIY crank-holding tool. Seems like it might be appropriate for our vehicles crank pulley, but the cam pulley?
The device to help install the powere steering pump belt is MB992275
https://mitsubishi.service-solutions...LER-DRIVE-BELT
Seems like a nice tool, but $24USD for a small piece of plastic? I think I might give the zip tie a chance. I think the problem with thei zip might be installing it in that cramped space. Boy, the prices of those special tools adds up fast.
Thanks.