when you say her choice, its almost like ur backtrackin like i stated earlier... ifa girl has protected sex and gets pregnant, she didnt chose to get pregnant... its like saying if im drining and someone hits me, i didnt chose to get in the accident, its something that happened... i did chose to take the risk, but theres always things to rely on to fix it.. in an accident i dont chose to bein i rely on insurance to fix the unwanted event, just like a women would rely on abortion.
and with "murder is murder" i also disagree.. everyone on my dads side of the family was in the service, gettin ready to murder when told to, my grandpa was a pow for 29 months.. if "murder is murder" you cant just exclude them cuz there doin it to ppl in other countries. murder is murder means no matter who you kill u need to be punished, and i highly disagree with that phrase, because u know that war vets do not murder, they fight for there country, they fight so you have a choice. and now that we have a choice on abortion, dont take it away...if you take away all these choices we "murder" (fight) for, we will be just as bad as the countries over seas.

 

wtf since when did you become smart? haha

 

why is everyone so into sayin murder is murder... abortion is murder.. its not.. if murder was murder, war vets are murderers (they are not), hunters are murderers (they are not), even they way u put it choppin a tree down would be murder cuz its a living thing.. if you kill someone in war, ur not a murderer, ur a soldier... if you kill an animal ur not a murderer, your a hunter... if you cut a tree down ur not a murderer, your a lumberjack.. if you have an abortion your not a murderer, its an abortion.. if you kill your x-wife after she finds a new man at age 33, YOUR A MURDERER..... i realy dont understand why everyone things murder is murder in every single senario....

 

First of all, lemme congratulate you, its been a very interesting thread, BUT this is where i disagree with you completely my friend hatchetman, its not like i am calling out the vets and calling them murderers, but i really really really storngly disagree with wars in any kind of way, if i went to war, and i killed someone i wouldnt be able to live with that id have a REAL guitly conscience... but lets just not get into that ( at least not yet hehehe) ABOUT the choices... youre right, an accident is an accident, lets just talk about the situation you previously stated, a girl having protected sex... its in her choices to NOT do it, the moment you become sexually active is the moment where youre ready to accept any responsabilities, and if 15 is a good age for that, congratulations i wish i was mature enough at that age to live by myself, its not like shes being pushed around to do it, and if thats the situation, SAD STORY... nowadays everybody knows that 1 out of 20 or 50 condoms fail, its just a rule, so people cannot say that they have been warned about it.
Also i would like to agree with VR4GARY, specially with the hitman thing, there are some not so benign doctors who made a vacation up to hawaii out of abortions, and it has been clinically proven that developed fetus feel pain and even ones that try to defend themselves...

 

VR4Gary, in this discussion there are no rights and no wrongs.
Everyone hasvaried opinions on this and to each his/her own.
I may disagree with you, and you with me, but in the end neither of us are right or wrong, we're opinionated.
Thank you.

 

but we must have war, to keep our rights. we must kill to have the choices we get.. over seas there are countries that have it so mad, women cant show there face in public... just cuz your not for abortion doesnt mean u should want nobody to be able to have one... people give there life for everything we have and all these choices... nobody is makin you agree with abortions, but if we are fightin and diein for these choices, dont take em away from everyone else, just make the choice how you want it, and let everyone else make there choice...believe it or not, i am 100% against abortion, but im 100% against makin it illegal... i would NEVER have an abortion, thats an agreement i made with my girlfriend befor we started having sex, cuz i dont agree with em at all... but i will fight for them because its a choice i believe anyone should be able to make because our ansisters died so we could make the choice,why would u wannagiveit away...

 

that is one of the most horrible things i have ever heard.

 

why is abortion murder? the moment it has a heartbeat rather by its mother or on its own...it is a living being...life is an amazing thing that should NOT be wasted. A fetus is an inocent being and abortion is condeming it to death without a chance to be something great.

 

I STRONGLY disagree with you through halfway around the post, then you seemed to have taken a very important and understanding decision, the thing your talking about the women with the covered faces is called culture, and what you seem to express is culture shock, if women in the middle east were so strongly against it they would have already risen in revolt, trust me, women have it harder in some other places such as India or Japan where the sexism is more black and white than grey points... and about the very beggining..... im only gonna say 2 things... first of all, war is in no way good at all, as well as this phrase states "you cannot have peace while defending yourself in case of a war", also, we must kill to have the choices we get? this somehow paradoxes over your previous statement of were not animals nor hunters... i appreciate human life to the fullest and id go on for a conversation between a person and myself before a war, if nothing can be done... well... left alone to rot, theyre not my problem, why should i care?... trust me, we are lucky to live comfy as we are, sooo lucky that if some crazy terrorist blows up a bomb in the middle of east it will not affect you directly... hehe end rant =) and seems like david agrees with me on the heartbeat thing

 

there are places over seas where if a women speaks up to a man she can be punished, the covered faces was just an example... and if they did revolt on it, they wouldnt make it far at all btw...
also ur right david, life is an amazing thing, and we shouldnt waste it.. but in some cases, having the baby wastes 2 lifes... so why waste 2 when the option of 1 is on the table?

this whole topic is an opinion.. weather you think im right or wrong, we all have our own opinions. thats a part of livin in america.. and instead of trying to infuence u to change ur opinion ill stop arguein and just state mine...
i believe we fight for everything we recieve... i think that if you dont believe in abortion, then you shouldnt have one.. i think its wrong to take that choice away from other ppl... if a sick perverted man rapes a 14 year old beautifulsmart girl who has a GREAT life on the way and you think she should have the baby just cuz that "****" got pregnant, i think you may have problems... i agree abortion is over used, and just looked at as an escape from pregnancey.. help minimize it if you want, but dont try to demolish it, because i think there will be many serious issues if we dont have it for the times its needed...