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Stalls, Intermitient, Fuel Injection Relay Spastic

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  #31  
Old 07-16-2005, 04:57 AM
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Default RE: Stalls, Intermitient, Fuel Injection Relay Spastic

i know on a 95-99 gs they are seperate
 
  #32  
Old 07-16-2005, 07:02 PM
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Default RE: Stalls, Intermitient, Fuel Injection Relay Spastic

This may help. Why don't you try pull yours off and test it. Then get a hair dryer and keep heating it to see if it fails when hot.
http://www.niehoff.com/techtips/18VARIABLE.html
 
  #33  
Old 07-17-2005, 10:17 PM
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Default RE: Stalls, Intermitient, Fuel Injection Relay Spastic

get4536, yep according to my Haynes they are one and the same for a 90. Didnt have much time to tinker with it this weekend between rain and house projects.

Friday I got an analog meter and got the trouble codes. The only code displaying is 41, bad fuel injector. So I got out my digital meter and checked the injectors, all 4 read 15-16ohms. So that was a wash.

Saturday I did start it up at one point and it shortly after stalled. So I took the time to clean the contacts on the sensor, checked all my slid levels etc. Took it for a short drive and nothing adverse happened.

pc, thanks for the tip. Thats an awesome tip and link! I'm going to give it a shot and see what I can find out. I'll carry my DMM with me too so if it cr**s out and the location is safe I can test it during a failure.

 
  #34  
Old 07-18-2005, 12:10 AM
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Default RE: Stalls, Intermitient, Fuel Injection Relay Spastic

Well I think I may really be onto something! If you recall from my first post I said that the car first displayed this symptom when it was raining. Well raining isnt quite the right words for how it was. It was more like a mini monsoon. At the time I figured the stall was due to the heavy rain (I actually pulled into a parking lot and waited out the storm because visibility was about 8 feet). The squall only lasted about 10 mins but it may have had a lasting effect. Ive found a couple other referenced to similar issues when washing engines; here http://www.dsm.org/archives/1997/09/...22.txt/18.html which I found here http://members.shaw.ca/costall/1000Q/answers-minor.htm

Has anybody ever washed the engine on a [DSM]?
How do you wash the engine on a [DSM]?
What parts do I need to cover when washing the engine bay?
I washed the engine on my [DSM], and now it won't run! What's wrong? Is there a fix?
My [DSM] won't run! I washed the engine, and it started fine then! What's wrong? Is there a fix?

Brian Hood washes his engine all the time. See his description of how to do it here.

Aside from the cam/crankshaft angle sensor problem (described below), the process is simple: Spray everything with a cleaner, scrub as desired, and wash off. (Foaming cleaners might stick to parts and odd-to-reach places better.) Some people dry with compressed air or towels. For rubber and plastic parts, Armor All and similar products can be applied; for metal, Nevr-Dull or Mothers Metal Polish; and so forth. Tools like scrub brushes, Scotch pads, and the like can all be used.

With one exception, electrical components under the hood can be washed. Note that there are one or two that might suffer if blasted hard with a high-pressure stream of water. For this reason, most people recommend a simple garden hose, although a pressure washer can certainly be used if a little care is taken.

There is one important caveat to the advice above. Every year a few owners have problems immediately or shortly after washing their engine. All have damaged the camshaft angle sensor on the car. Without this sensor, the ECU cannot tell what position the crankshaft is in, and the engine cannot run. Some years have a crankshaft angle sensor instead; the effect is the same.

This makes the cam/crankshaft angle sensor the only real "must cover" part on the engine. A medium Ziploc bag or Saran Wrap is fine as long as the main body of the sensor stays dry.

The sensor in question is located next to the throttle body on top of the engine. It is round, about four inches in diameter, an inch thick, and grey in color. On turbo models, it is located immediately to the left of the words "16 Valve" on the top of the engine (see this picture for location).

If the sensor is covered the engine will probably start up fine right after washing. However, driving the car with a wet engine will create steam, which will get inside the crankshaft angle sensor housing. Once the car is shut off, the steam condenses into water, which will still wreck the sensor - even if it was covered prior to washing. Thus, some unlucky owners will find the car starts fine after cleaning, only to be "dead" the next morning.

So, to prevent crank angle sensor damage, therefore, there are TWO steps:

* cover the crankshaft sensor

and:

* wait until the engine is mostly dry before driving, or
* drive it for a while and then raise the hood to allow the steam to escape, or
* drive it long enough to get the engine completely dry.

Some owners are able to 'revive' their sensors, as Brian Powell was able to do here, but most are dead. Some Digesters have investigated if they can be repaired, but so far nobody has been able to do so. So don't get into a situation where you need to replace it.
So I am really starting to think this must be the problem. I cant imagine why such a mission critical sensor would be so delicate. Traditional hall effect distributor sensors usually work fine once they have dried out if they are negatively effected at all. Or a quick spray of WD 40 can take care of displacing the water. With that in mind I've given mine a sprtiz If it seems to behave better or even normally then I will know I am on to something. If it werent for the blasted security screws on the cover I would simply remove it, disassemble, clean it and make sure its dry and replace the gasket on it. I may still give it a shot...
 
  #35  
Old 07-18-2005, 11:03 AM
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Default RE: Stalls, Intermitient, Fuel Injection Relay Spastic

One other suggestion is if you suspect heat as a cause carry a bottle of water with you so that if it stalls then pour water on the sensor to cool it and see if it starts. Of course if it's water that's causing the problem as well, kinda puts you into a corner. A CO2 spray can will also cool the sensor.
 
  #36  
Old 07-18-2005, 11:39 AM
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Default RE: Stalls, Intermitient, Fuel Injection Relay Spastic

Thanks PC. Yeah I thought about carrying some water but as you can see thats probably not a great idea. I did carry some 'canned air' to spot cool the Ignition Transistor unit a while back in case that was the problem, but I used it up. I guess I need to pick up another can. I've also contacted about 30 wrecking yards to see if I can pick one up 'on the cheap' so to speak. I hate to pay $400 for a part that may or may not be the actual problem. Since the computer readout was no help I'm even more leary.
 
  #37  
Old 07-19-2005, 01:24 PM
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Default RE: Stalls, Intermitient, Fuel Injection Relay Spastic

Well I have found a local self service wrecking yard and they have 5 cars that are the right year and make. (3 90 Eclipse and 2 Plymouth Laser) which according to Standard Motor Products all use the same sensor.
Make Model Year
DODGE --- 2000 GTX 89
2000 GTX 89
EAGLE --- TALON 90
TALON 90
MITSUBISHI --- ECLIPSE 90
ECLIPSE 90
GALANT 89
GALANT 89
PLYMOUTH --- LASER 90
LASER 90

So hopefully I will find one when I go over there on my lunch. I've also got my father looking for one in California at his local wrecking yard.
 
  #38  
Old 07-19-2005, 04:16 PM
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Default RE: Stalls, Intermitient, Fuel Injection Relay Spastic

No such luck all the 2.0L engines were gone only 1.8's left behind. Its a shame the Crankshaft position sensor off a 95 hyundai elantra wont work, its a mitsubishi engine and I bet they share a lot of the same parts....

 
  #39  
Old 07-19-2005, 05:27 PM
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Default RE: Stalls, Intermitient, Fuel Injection Relay Spastic

call the dealer they will have one it may cost you but who says you find one and it isn't burned up or close to it? parts like that i think should be new.
 
  #40  
Old 07-19-2005, 05:31 PM
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Default RE: Stalls, Intermitient, Fuel Injection Relay Spastic

im showing $363 for the part new! here is an awsome website for any part fro just about any car. https://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/mfr,P...240,Long+Block
 


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