ideally, do you want the "nipple end" of the wastegate actuator hose closer to/on the turbocompressor itself, or would it be better to have it up around the throttle body/intake manifold? it would seem to me that you would get a more correct "Reading" by the MBC if it was nearer the actual point of entry into the enigne. however, i have some oddball turbo sitting here, and it has the nipple on the compressor housing, and about 8" of hose to the WGA. It is my understanding that putting a T in that line, would be a proper place for the MBC, but if there is 15psi as monitored at the point where the compressed air leaves the turbo, there would be boost loss by the time it enters the intake manifold. for instance, if i have my boost gauge connected to the FPS, and it is measuring 11psi stock, and i want to run 15psi, my reading at the FPS would be true. however, if i were to move the boost gauge reading point down near the compressor, it would read higher.

does this not make any difference where i mount the MBC, so long as my FPS connected gauge reads 15psi, and i should mount the MBC "T" where ever is the most simple?

 

Pat, what you are saying is true and you hit that right on the head according to my theory and others that believe the same.

To reiterate...
If you were to max out your turbo, you want it to stop at it's max point correct? If turbo "X" maxes out at 21psi and you were to read 21psi at the intake manifold, it's not just 21psi. Huh? See, the turbo has to pump more because of piping, to include the diameter, bends, length, intercooler, and friction. So, if you see 21psi at the manifold, the turbo may be pumping 22-23psi to get it there...this is with a boost controller connected to the manifold/bov. Why? Because the controller is seeing the pressure AFTER the initial spool and not at the source.
With the BC connected to the starting point, you are in effect stopping the turbo spool at 21psi because the boost controller is reading that amount of pressure at the source and not at the target location, which means that the control is immediate and not lagging. Do you see why a bigger FMIC is NOT as good as A LOT of people think? Sure, it has a larger cooling surface, but it also has a larger pressure drop. That's the key word right there.
To confuse even more. Yes, the gauge isn't as correct in it's readings, no matter how much that boost gauge cost you or brand, as anyone thinks. It is at the end of the compressed air's route, it's going to read what the IC piping is allowing to flow, whether it be actual or leaked. That's the whole purpose of the gauge is to help you monitor air flow from the compressor to the manifold. Not to tell you the compressor's output. This is why boost leak tests are soooo important in boosted cars. This is why BLTs are important in cars where their turbos are close to or are maxed out. A leak (even a tiny one) for an extended time frame is not good at all for that particular turbo.
So you guys with the huge FMIC that your buddy told you to get to go with your 16G, you'll be buying a turbo way before you might expect. You need that extra cooling surface because your turbo is spitting out even hotter air than normal. So now the air is cooled to the normal temp, hot. Sure it looks cool, but so would my AR-15 used in close quarters, lol.

Can you guys see why the compressor housing is the best location to connect a boost controller yet? I'm not telling you guys anything you don't want to do. If you feel like the bov is the best place, you're going to do it anyway but, if you're going to say that the bov/manifold IS better than the compressor, I'm all ears (or eyes, lol, I crack myself up sometimes, lol). The only reason people connect their BCs onto the bov is because they don't have a nipple on the compressor housing. It's very easy to have a nipple welded on and I don't see it being more than an hours worth of the $hops time <--dual meaning, lol.

Sorry for the long read

 

interesting point about the turbo being overworked, and I understand your point about boost loss due to the giant IC and such, but what about at a much lower level of boost? You point out that people are ruining their turbos by trying to achieve the turbos max boost AFTER boost loss, and i see what youre getting at, but what about in a much closer to stock boost increase?

For instance, ive often heard that I can safely run 15psi, without upgrading anything else, like the fuel system. i hear "the engine and fuel system will accomodate 15psi safely". so, say that i was to adjust the MBC to give me 15psi AT the intake manifold. Say that im losing 1psi from the compressor to the boost reading point. At 16psi at the compressor, im not stressting the 14b (or so i understand..if im wrong, please let me know), and I am reaching my engines max capacity of stock boost at 15psi at the manifold. Is there a downside to that sort of theory? Even if i wanted me one of them purty giant FMICs, and im losing 2psi from the compressor to the manifold and im creating 17psi with the turbo, is there a downside if i am still not overusing the turbo and I am not overwheling them stock fuel system?

 

Running 15psi on your 14B is fine. No real need to upgrade anything like you said, but to get a boost controller and boost gauge. There's not too much of a downside doing this at all since the stock system can handle it. If you play things safe like me , you would clean the stock smic (which you said you were going to do anyway) and check your flex pipes and connections, the basics.
You won't stress the turbo even with 1 lbs of loss. Like you said, as long as you're not at the turbos limits, you're fine

-Pressure loss can come into play with even the stock setup (speaking of turbo, I/C pipes, SMIC). Those rubber flex intercooler pipes do just that, they flex, the stock smic isn't very efficient either as noted from several DSM threads concerning it. It will also heatsoak pretty early compared to say something like a Supra smic (which is an alternative to a fmic + 16G) after a few hard passes.
Most, if not all, FMIC vendors state how many lbs they lose at 15psi...usually about .5psi-1psi. After 15psi, they start to lose their efficiency.
If you really want to see what the stock I/C system can handle, make a boost leak tester with a gauge on it and have someone look at the boost gauge in the car. Go to your intended boost setting and see how many lbs, if any, are lost. Make sure you don't have any leaks first, lol.

The main thing is where the boost controller should be connected. Remeber, in pure stock form, even the BCS is connected to the J pipe. The BOV is an secondary location
What should matter is that the turbo slows down at the boost setting when it reaches it and not a second later. Nobody likes lag, even the turbo

 

So for a newbie like me () would you recommend the first mod to be a real boost gauge? I was talking to a kid at the track last year with a GSX and it was running decent...high 12s...and in talking to him he said that he was running "about 20 p-s-i...not sure exactly how much because my gauge doesnt go that high"...he appeared to be using the stock gauge on the dash...i think that he may have been guessing.

in short...for people not so familiar with things, the boost controller should go inline between the Waste gate actuator and a point as close to the compressor as possible (i believe that my 1g will have a nipple on the j pipe) and the aftermarket boost gauge should be hooked into the fuel pressure solenoid, as those readings will be "safer" for the vehicle than an actual boost reading and control point nearer to the entry into the manifold...?

 

Oh yeah, boost gauge as a very first mod is never bad. At least on a 1G you have numbers and tick marks, on 2Gs, there's only "+", a "-", and tick marks, lol. You can also make your own manual boost controller if you feel confident with it, otherwise, JoeP or Hallman make great MBCs for around another $50.

 

ive actually spoken to a few mustang owners who used to own DSMs, who suggested the same MBCs. I think that I could make my own with some stuff from home depot, but this is my first turbo car, as ive always dealt with V8s...and i dont want to be fabbing parts just yet...

if i didnt have a wedding to pay for in a few months, i would have already ordered stuff...but dont tell amanda..its my "winter car"...

 

Lol, it's kind of hard to keep it from her in here Pat, lol. Oh wait, she doesn't come in here though, she's mainly on Dodge Forum, right?
You better not get me into trouble by association Pat![sm=smiley36.gif]

 

when i told her.."im not going to mod it"..she laughed...the EXACT same way that pghsebring laughed and the same way that my parents laughed...