sorry buddy.. but ive been a mitsu tech for 17 years.
and ALL cars suffer an obvious loss of coolant flow at idle. some worse than others.
yes, its normal on an outlander. steps to alleviate it have been taken, but rather unsuccessfully.

 

there is barely any thermal energy being produced at idle. most ends up out the tailpipe.

 

Your words here may be confusing to some. I'd like to clarify.

The fact that coolant flow is reduced at idle is normal for cars (outlander included), does not mean that having poor heat at idle is normal. I've owned (primarily 4cyl) vehicles that could cook you out of the cabin at idle, regardless of outdoor temperature. Clearly the heating system in the Outlander is defective and it seems as though MMNA is trying to remedy the problem.

This doesn't accurately answer his question. While unintended, it seems like you're saying that the heater is powered by the exhaust energy. The majority of the thermal energy from combustion is absorbed through the engine block.


I think it's a two part issue:

1. I have a feeling that the water pump pulley on the Outlander is the culprit. It's probably over-sized, creating a slower circulating flow at idle.

2. I'm sure in an effort to gain mpg and decrease emissions, MMNA kept the idle at ~500rpms. Most cars I've owned have idled at ~700-900rpms depending on make/model, etc. Perhaps an aftermarket solution will solve the problem.

 

BlackB13, it's exactly what I mean! I know the flow will be decreased due to the speed of the water pump at idle, but like you said, doesn't mean that having poor heat at idle is normal. Sorry manybrews, I wasn't enough clear in my words! I called another mitsu dealership and they told me, there's something to do with that problem. They just need to try that ''new'' part, if it's working for my Outti. Maybe, they will change only the water pump pulley, put smaller one to get the pump turning faster at idle. They told me, they have to report it to Mitsubishi Canada, for every case that they have. So, I'll keep you posted guys, thank you again for all comments.

 

and ive owned many vehicles that cant even get to operating temperature if just left to idle.
its not a "problem" so much as a car that wasnt designed for 10 below.

no, its not. the majority goes out the tailpipe. almost NONE is absorbed through the engine block. the cylinder head is the place where most heat transfer in the engine takes place.
MAYBE 30 percent of the heat energy is turned into motion. the rest is given up through the cooling system, exhaust, and just radiant energy..
when a car is at idle, the heater core alone is OFTEN enough to remove enough thermal energy to keep a car from hitting operating temp, especially if its a small, efficient, aluminum engine.
the heater core is essentially a small radiator. and as such, it removes the heat from the cooling system very effectively. that, with the reduced flow (a water pump is NOT a positive pressure pump!) makes the heater output diminish.
i GUARANTEE if you test ANY car on the market. ANY car... its output at idle is far, far less than when moving. both for heater output and cooling output.
its the way it is. cooling system output is reduced at idle, as is thermal output.. but the draw on the system through the heater core has not reduced.
so its simple. you're not producing nor moving as many BTUs as the heater is capable of removing.

 

Name one vehicle you've owned (with a properly operating thermostat) where the car did not reach operating temperature while just idling. I'm interested because after installing remote starters for 7yrs on hundreds of cars, I've never had one not heat up to full operating temp in ~30min. This is in Chicago 0* temps, some even lower.

It is a "problem." I'm not sure how MMNA did not do cold weather testing on this vehicle, especially since this is a global platform that will see various temperatures. It is a failure on Mitsubishi's part, and is one of the reasons I will not be purchasing another one. Probably why you no longer work for MMNA.



I'm not trying to argue semantics here. I meant to clarify that the his heater is using the thermal energy from combustion, not exhaust.

I never said the water pump was a positive pressure pump! However, the pump is sole contributor to CIRCULATING THE COOLANT. If the pulley is over-sized, the circulation will be diminished at low rpm's, usually in an effort to avoid cavitation at high rpm's. This is one resaon why the aftermarket sells over-sized pulleys for racing/high rpm applications.

As far as the heater core being so efficient that it will prevent a car from warming up, that's just flat out wrong...in a car with a working thermostat. I will say though, that operating my heater on high during HPDE's does help reduce, maybe 1-2* overall coolant temp.


You've already acknowledged that Mitsu did not properly design the vehicle for low temps, now it seems like your defending it in your statement above (I could be misinterpreting it).

"Output at idle" is subjective in your context. However, I will agree that the output will be higher while the vehicle is moving (based on increased coolant flow and coolant temps). This is the whole reason why cars have thermostat's. Closed while cold and open while hot. Your "cooling output" comment does not apply to this discussion.




I stand by my two hypothesis as to why the Outlander has awful heat while idling compared to every other car I've owned/driven/worked on.

Another hypothesis could be that MMNA has installed a thermostat that opens at 150* or lower, thereby creating a lower operating threshold for heat. Most cars I've worked on have thermostats that open at ~170* or higher. I'm sure you could tell us the exact temp the thermostat opens, since you could ask someone you used to work with.

When it drops in temp soon (2 months), can you humor me measuring the idling temp of the BMW's you work on? It'd be interesting to hear what the differences are at idle vs. 1500 rpm's on a luxury sedan compared to a budget wagon.

 

i was poking around rockauto.com looking at what parts are available for the outlander. They have two thermostats available for the outlander. there is a 170* and a 180*. Service manual says standard is 180*.

 

i can name a half dozen to start with.
toyota corolla. toyota tercel. Hyundai elantra. hyundai tucson. early generation 1.8 eclipse.
1.5 liter mirage.
all of these engines produce VERY little thermal energy at idle. the heater core is more than capable of removing more heat than the engine produces. A "functioning thermostat" has nothing to do with it, as the coolant always flows through the heater core regardless. in essence, its a radiator with no thermostat.
its not a problem if less than 5 percent of all owners experience it.
you think mitsu can test for every variable on the planet? no, they cant. no one can. you think my current employer (BMW) is without their cold weather faults? think again. You're talking about a snowy, cold country. They have a major issue with their crankcase ventilation system. as soon as it gets cold, warms a little, then cold again, water freezes inside the crankcase. BOOM! valve covers EXPLODE like a twelve gauge. literally. It gets worse, too.. an exploded valve cover is what you could hope for.
BMW engineers didnt plan for the bizarre weather where I live. they couldnt.



yes, but most thermal energy from an engine is lost. that was my point. the more efficient an engine is at transferring that heat (as are most new engines), the easier it is for a high efficiency heater core to remove it.


right. but since its not a positive pressure pump, the coolant can slow.
its totally right. how many years have you worked on cars? 18 for me.
heres a test. Wait till its 0 degrees outside. start your car and let it warm with no blower fan.
then do the same test with the fan on high. the efficiency of the heater core will quickly be witnessed when your car takes 6 times longer to warm, if it ever fully does.
im not talking about big, fat, old american v8s, which make so much heat you could power a small city. im talking about a modern, small, injected aluminum engine.



of course i am. no car is perfect. so, the car doesnt cook you. thats the reason you wont buy another one?
i guarantee i can find a fault (subjective as it is) with every one of the 45 cars ive owned.
every one.
yes it does.


the decrease in coolant flow is the largest reason. happens on all cars. just take general temp reading.
same for the AC. the heater (and AC) is as much as 30-40 percent less efficient at idle. just a fact.
i believe its 82 C. which is about a 180 F.
as ive said, they have a wealth of other issues. but to be sure, the effectiveness of their HVAC systems is diminished at idle, when standing still.

 

Maybe I did something right, but I ran around in a '93 Eclipse with the 1.8L...I can't say I ever had a problem with the heater. This was in northern IN/IL and in KC, MO where it did get in the negatives. It wasn't a blast furnace, but on trips in the winter time, I just wore a tshirt. Backside seat area stayed cold, but front seats were nice. Maybe it had problems further north, but where I stomped around, it got cold enough and that little car did just fine.

 

i think you misunderstood.. i meant a car that wouldnt warm fully when sitting idle and it had the heat running full blast.
would it heat up? yes, of course. but certainly not to its maximum output. not by a long shot.