Hello all,

I have a 2008 Outlander (UK) with the 2.0 Volkswagon diesel engine in it

A new filling station has opened next to me selling biodiesel, at 15p cheaper than regular diesel.

it is 100% bio and not some dodgy stuff made in a shed, all regulated to EN14214 standard (research tells me this is a good thing) What I am getting at is could I use this safely?

The guy explained to me that I would have to change the fuel filter after a month as the bio cleans off carbon build up from the engine thats built up from fossel fuels and this will clean off in the first month and thats why a new filter is needed

I take it the filter is in the engine not the fuel tank?

thanks

Neil

 

It is definitely not about the tank filter.

 

I think he mean the particulate filter in the exhaust system.

This is peculiar to Diesel and I have read a few post by Peugeot drivers that had it clogged and had to clean or replace it.

 

Isn't particulate filter being cleaned by burning during the certain engine modes?

 

Yes but like everything in life it doesn't work all the time.
Apparently to clean it need high RPM for a certain period of time and most user don't.

Also I suspect that a change in fuel type like going to BioDiesel might gunk the carbon already there. Remember the time we switched from regular oil to self cleaning oil how many engine got messed up when the existing deposit got "cleaned away".

I know, I'm old.

 

My gut instinct would make me think that soot is soot. But it seems like the bio-diesel folks understand the DPF will need to be cleaned right after the switch over so it must be different enough to clash with normal diesel soot already in the particulate filter.

It's certainly not as bad as cleaning out deposits from the engine. I'm not sure what a plugged DPF would do to the system. I would hope there would be a safety bypass just like oil filters but in this case you'd be blowing more soot out the tail pipe instead of allowing unfiltered oil to circulate through your engine.

This white paper discusses active and passive regeneration and some of the different methods manufacturers are using to regenerate (aka burn off) the DPF. It focuses on the fuel dilution issue in the engine oil which depends on how the active regeneration was implemented by the vehicle manufacturer.

http://www.amsoil.com/techservicesbu...l_Dilution.pdf

Obviously if your DPF plugs up your vehicle will attempt to burn it off more often which could lead to higher fuel dilution in the oil.

 

I invistigate this issues and try biodiesel for some time. Here is my expiriance:
1. You should change fuel filter (small one mounted on fuel pipes), not DPF. It is chip and cost several box. It is advisable to do this in each of first two months of usage of biodiesel.
2. According to VW warranty is not broken, or engine is certified to use B5 (5% bio & 95% diesel). Probably this is only marketing issue since there are lot of drivers that use B10, B20 or even B100 without any problems.
3. There are some percantage of drivers who faced completly destroyed DPF, and chane of it costs over 1k. Probably majority of these problems are initated by low quality of used biodiesel. After clogging DPF can be overheated and destroyed unreversable.
4. DPF can be regularry be cleaned with continious driving with speed of 80-90 km/h for 30-40 minutes. All cloged parts are burn during this process. It is important to keep continious working temperature of DPF without overheating
5. Some dealers use reprograming of timing and mixture of diese-air to get best performance for burning biodiesel

I used to run my Outlander for half year on biodiesel (B8, this is only avilable in my country) without any problems. Minor loose of power during accelerating and maximum speed was noticable during this period (my Outlander is fatory fitted with Ralliart-Chip providing 167 PS). Only reason I stop using biodiesel was price which is still higher than ordinary diesel in my country.

My advice is to google and read carefuly through forums of VW Golf and expiriance using old 2.0TDI engine (same as in our Outlaners) as well as Biodiesel forums before starting usage of it.

 

I understand my non-diesel Outlander has the fuel filter in the gas tank. Look for a canister style filter on your TDI somewhere under the hood.

VW TDI Fuel Filter Restriction: Causes, Effects, and Cures - YouTube

If it's similar to that video it would be much easier to change than what I was thinking about which starts by removing the second row of seats.

 

Neil,
I have researched this topic quite considerably recently due to the high cost of diesel. This is how I understand the situation regarding bio and the Outlander;

Firstly bio is more acidic than fossil and therefore will 'clean' out the fuel and engine system. This is where changing the fuel filter becomes necessary due to the crud from the fuel tank and lines being cleaned out and sent through the system to be collected in the fuel filter. You would probably notice a loss in power or the engine stalling as the filter clogs. Its not big deal, just change the filter which is under the bonnet. You should only really have to do this once depending on the amount of build up in the tank, but on an '08 there shouldn't be that much.

The big concern with bio is in relation to the diesel particulate filter (DPF) fitted to the exhaust. This filters out larger exhaust matter to meet latest regs and has to be regularly 'cleaned' by means of burning off the deposits. This is done by injecting neat fuel during the exhaust cycle, sending fuel down the exhaust which then ignites on the hot filter, burning off the deposits. This is 'Active Regeneration', the other method is 'Passive Regeneration' where the heat of the exhaust burns off the deposits without the need for extra fuel. Now, Active regeneration happens when you only do short journeys and the exhaust doesn't reach the required temp, Passive occurs on those longer trips when the exhaust reaches the required temp.
The reason that VW/Mitsu will tell you not to use Bio is because it is also thinner that fossil and during Active regens it can migrate past the cylinder rings into the sump oil, thereby diluting the oil and reducing its lubricating properties. VW etc would prefer not to handle any warranty probs due to dodgey bio, dilluted oil etc, so they say only use EN590 diesel which contains no more that 7% bio. This is what you get from every pump in the UK.

Now, many people on Bio forums will tell you they have had no probs running Bio, and I susspect that would be the case on the Outie. You just won't get any definitives from your dealer, the only one I got was NO!

Other issues are what the Bio is made from and the quality etc. Fuel 'Cloud Point' is the temp at which the oil starts to go like gel. Its oil, so think of butter in the fridge (hard). You have prob seen cooking oil go a cloudy white colour on cold days, this is clouding. It means the oil is starting to solidify, if this happens in the your fuel tank it ain't going through the pipies, filter or injectors! Now some oils have lower cloud points than others, Rapeseed being one of the lowest. If you look at the new PSA engined 2.4 diesel of the latter models it will tell you that you can use up to 30% bio mix as long as it made with rapeseed oil. Hence you must know where your bio is coming from.
Water, glycerol, dirt etc are also problems associated with poor manufacturing of bio. The oil must be 'cleaned' of and foreign matter (chips, batter etc). Water is used to clean the fuel and glycerine is a by-product, the quality of the resulting fuel is determined by how well these are removed.

Now the big thing, price. 15p less than ordinary is outright robbery considering actual manufacturing costs are as low as 12p/ltr for the homebrewer if using free, used oil from the chippy. Even if you buy neat oil from the shop it shouldn't cost much more than 70p/ltr. Reactor kits cost ~£1000 for a good one, simple maths says you can prob get that back after a year or two at current prices. There is no tax to pay if you don't exceed 2500 ltrs per year, that's more that three tanks a month, should be enough.

So can you use it? Yes..no..maybe, depends. If you do long journeys most of the time, your DPF should be okay, as should the sump oil. If you keep a close eye on the oil and change it more regularly, you prob won't wreck the engine. If it doesn't get too cold in winter, the oil shouldn't cloud, or you could mix it with fossil.

I haven't taken the plunge yet, I'm still trying to get a sensible answer from someone with more knowledge than me about the engine, dpf regens etc. You have to make you own decision here 'cos no-one from VW/Mitsu will give you an answer.

Hope this clarifies a few things, and do let us know if you find out more yourself, we'd all like to know!