Hi tcp, i agree your post, but i refer mine to another condition: think about a tipiclìally "twist" condition, with 2 wheels in the air and 2 on ground. If you stop the car to take a shot in this position, when you will try to move, you'll see the 2 wheel in air spin free and no movement of car body. this because the 2 sensor (we call phonic wheel) on the grounded tyre read "0" that mean no movement ( tachometer reads also "0")
Anyway, look at this video in the first part there is an interesting trial on a artificial ramp that simulates a "only 1 wheel traction from 0 speed.

In any case, the tyre are responsible of more than 60% of traction, and remember, i drive an Outlander like all you:-)

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7dVFY5CxT0

 

Well, Here is on video you might like..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJt0j38JJBA

Old

 

This is a very interesting thread to read!
Personally I'm not convinced the New Outlander will do better than the 1st gen. in situations as outlined by other members - getting stuck in deep snow, deep loose sand or deep mud. (Which is also not the kind of surface what the car is designed for...)
If I understand correctly, the New Outlander relies on an electronically controlled center differential (is this an ACD like used in the EVO VII?), plus Active Skid and Traction Control
Under the advantages of an ACD I found this: "the ACD has a differential limiting capacity three times greater than that of the viscous coupling-type differential used to date."
This would be a good improvement over the 1st gen. Outlander, if it's true and actually useful.

As we all know the 1st gen. Outlander uses a Viscous Coupling Unit-type center differential, which I think is sufficient to provide torque to front and rear axle in most situations, but unfortunately I didn't get the opportunity to test this myself in deep snow since we don't get much of the white stuff... and also no sand dunes around here.

Like someone else said here, it appears the ASTC doesn't appear to kick in action in such extreme situations where you get stuck badly. Which would be the only way to slow down a spinning wheel on the same axle as the other wheel which isn't rotating at all?
I suppose the ASTC is tuned exclusively for road safety and not for heavy offroad driving...

I'd love to hear some more from owners who had a 1st gen. and now a New Outlander and drove with both through snow or offroad tracks

By the way the only Production class vehicles I've seen successfully finish the Dakar rally in the last editions were the Nissan Pathfinder (usually in the top 20 overall!), Toyota Landcruiser and some Mercedes 4x4

Cheers

 

Ouch, truly horrendous conditions there

 

The video is very interesting. I'm still having trouble understanding what is happening there. Just to simplify for the simple (me, apparently), can we equate this to a front wheel drive or rear wheel drive system only. The two wheels are mechanically connected by a differential. If one has no traction and is spinning and the differential is rotating to make up the difference between the two wheels, if i mechanically slow the spinning wheel(abs brake system), the torque must be transfered to the other side, no? If you consider that both the front and back are just two wheels with a differential between them, the only other item in play is the transfer case(or equivalent). I would consider both front and rear wheelsets the same as the FWD unit using brakes to distribute torque. Where am I missing something. I would think the ASC computer can sense wheelspeed differences and pulse the correct brakes to compensate. Other than mechanical controls of torque inside the differential (torsen, for example), what else am i missing...the speed at which compensation occurs?

 

ok, restart from basic knowledge:

Take the simplest 4x4 transmission (called part-time), 2 axes (front & rear) one differential gearbox each one to compensate during turn wheel speed differences,
if you apply torque at all 4 wheel at same time on concrete, at the first turn you will destroy your gearbox because front axel travel more than rear axel, so you need a central differential gearbox to compensate this rotation difference, but if you fix it on a normal (free) differential, torque will be transferred to the axel with less grip, resulting in a wheel spin and no movement (for example when you have the back of the car on ice and front on concrete), to solve this problem we need a central diff gearbox able to recognize indesidered spinning and able to lock in the case this occours (torsen diff is an example but very expensive) and in the last years, electrnics come to help us in this situation, through the phonic wheel coupled to each wheel (same pick-up of abs) and a computer, programmed to "feel" rear and front axel speed differences; in case of slip it send a signal to an electronic controlled differential gearbox that immediatly lock itself to limit slip from rear to front (one of this box is installed on Outlander), but remain a problem, if you lift one wheel on each axel, torque always find the way with less drag resulting in a locked car with 2 spinning wheel in the air (twist). Electronics another one time help us , another calculator compute together wheel speed on the same axel comparing this with car speed (tachometer) and pulse on each single brake to reduce spinning on the wheel with less grip, but this system is limited, because if tachometer reads "0" it can't compare signals correctly, so engineer trim the system to operate with a minimum car speed (normally 5 to 10 mph) and only on specialized off road veichle (normally whit low gear and haevy duty gearboxes) the calculator compute the spin differences between wheels and "transmission axe" (central) and only in this case the system is active on a still car. Don't forget that at very low speed the torque applied on all gearboxes is enormous and light and small gearboxes like suvs has do not permit this stress.
Anyway the only trick i suggest on a slippery surface is NOT STOP your car, to mantain active traction control.

Sorry again for my bad english, is hard for me to
write tecnical concept in your language.

Sirius

 

Hello fromRussian Outlander club: www.out-club.ru

I read with interest this theme. We also discuss about off-road potential our new Outies. Some guys also asked how they can use four-wheels drive with ASC system. We made some experiment that proved: to help in situation when one whell on each axisare free spinnig ASC must be ON. We call this situation "diagonal suspension" like this:

http://www.out-club.ru/board/attachm...p;d=1198833981

In this position I tried ASC to OFF- two wheels in air spinned, two on ground - stopped. Like as mono-drive car.
When I returned ASCmodeto ON - my car started slowly move forward. Notice: need to accelerate between 30 - 60 percent. If less, ASC can't help to stop spinning wheelstomove stopped wheels. At medium throttle all 4 wheels were spinned!

Of course, winter tyres also recommended for deep snow. All-seasons tyresat low temperatures stay more hard and slushy.

 

30 to 40 % ?
you mean like 30 to 40 km / h ?
also
So when ASC is on the system work like if i got like a jeep 4x4 in LOW mod ?
that very interesting.
that system is realy complicate for shure, but seam to be a good system.
i just wish i can have a way to lock in 4x4 when you are realy realy realy stock like i was with my outie.
i was stuck in the snow and when i need all weel spinning i was realy disapoint that only 2 weel spin

 

I can't get this link to work.

It takes me to a login page and since I can't read Russian I go no further.

Rob

 

Sergy, juste put what info is on that link for us will be nice
tanks