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Starter Cross-compatibility 3.0L?

  #1  
Old 11-28-2017, 11:35 AM
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Default Starter Cross-compatibility 3.0L?

Hi,

I am helping a friend with an Outlander 2007. They only made a 3.0L version that year. A leak, I suspect from the oil filter area, went onto the starter starting a month ago, resulting in hard starts, and then yday it failed to turn over. The solenoid in the starter was definitely firing, I could feel it move when she tried to turn it over. I also Google'd extensively about it, and starter fouling due to oil is something that can happen on that model engine.

This brings me to offers online for starters. I see an Ebay offer for a 3.xL Mitsubishi engine,
This one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Starter...6/152376389961
(and https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/252427530684 (possibly same bolt up pattern with lower KW rating) and so on)

On the first link, it looks like a starter that would bolt up with the same KW rating. I know on the toyotas I worked on, I would frequently use a much newer starter and they bolt up just fine, and have a higher power rating so the engine starts easier and the starter lasts longer.

You think this 2000-2003 is cross-compatible?

Thoughts?
 
  #2  
Old 11-30-2017, 04:11 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 2
Thumbs up SOLVED: Mitsubishi Outlander 2007 starter

TLDR: Replaced the brushes with brush-only kit WAI GLOBAL #68-8312. (See Details at bottom)
Billings Auto Electric supplied the brush kit for $13 and I rebuilt it.
Brushes in that kit need 3.73mm of material removed from the business-end (inner) to make them short enough to fit. There is a #68-8315 kit that is a 15mm instead of 17mm brush. So there may be a 14mm/14.25mm brush kit that would fit directly, or the way the 68-8315 15mm brush is measured, it's actual measurements are 14.25mm and it would fit directly.

Complete Story:
Causes of no start:

1) First of all, the vehicle had ~200k miles on it. The positive wire brushes were worn out to a sliver remaining. I opened the starter because it had become visibly oil-fouled, and found what was left of the brushes, along with a lot of oily, sludgy residue.

2) WAVE, a car wash with an added oil change garage, out of Billings, MT, had worked on it last, within the last couple of weeks (10/2017). They failed to tighten the oil filter (at all), and they overfilled it 2 quarts too much oil. The oil leaked out of the loose oil filter, all over the starter. Owner of the vehicle complained of poor starting, sluggishness in turning over, finally with the owner's arrival it wouldn't turn over all all.

Diagnostic:
First, we tried to jump it, but checking the battery, voltage was good: +13 volts after removing jumpers, with no immediate drop-off of voltage indicating a bad battery. Battery was dated 5/16, and looked clean with no leaks. Additionally entire engine topside appeared clean with no leaks.

Accessories engaged fully and relays clicked fully as if the system was full of energy. I had suspected a bad starter relay based on owner's testimony and some googling, so after jumping, I found where the starter was located, up front and underneath, went underneath, had owner turn it over and felt for the solenoid trying to engage along with presence of voltage at the battery. Both voltage and feel were good, but lots of oily sludgy buildup.

Googled a lot. No one had the same problem. No oil, except for one mention, that when the filter is changed repeatedly, the accumulated oil can foul the starter. But this leak was worse.

Repair:
Removed negative battery wire, then 4x8mm bolts holding on the underside plate (this is not necessary to remove the starter, so you can skip this till later when the starter is off the vehicle), 1x12mm positive wire nut, control wire (use a jewelers' screwdriver, gently pry out the plastic tab and then wiggle off the connector with a pair of needle-nose). Remove 2x14mm starter holding bolts, one is facing the starter (lower), the other is on the backside, passing through engine/transmission housing into the starter. It is the LOWER bolt, the one that looks like it is closest to the engine mount.

Pulled out starter and took to shop, proceeded to clean. Took some photos, and found remaining bits of positive brushes, with negatives very worn down. Looked good otherwise, very little pitting on the armature, no signs of mechanical or electrical damage. Burnt smell upon removing long assembly 8mm-head bolts, and opening. Anyone should be able to do this job. It's a few bolts and high torque screws. Make sure to use proper tools: #3 phillips, not a common #2, and a ratchet, to break torque on screws, and give precise leverage for re-torquing.

Googled around for brush set. Prices were $8.50 to 22.50. $22.50 for the precise brush holder and brushes piece, although it looked like the less expensive kit could be made to work. So, knowing this was a common piece, we took a ride to Billings about an hour away, and on advice of the local parts guy, had the names of the two alternator/starter shops.

The woman at BAE heard our story, and provided us with a brush kit only, brushes with copper cable, two for negative, and one wire with two brushes for positive, which may be "too long", but otherwise had the right dimensions, for $13. She also provided a strip of ~80 grit sandpaper 10 inches long and an inch & 1/4 wide, to clean the armature with.

I sat in my vehicle, and removed the black brush holders: there is a little metal tab at the back that retains them and they slide out away from center.

Using a plastic pill bottle with a piece of duck tape wrapped around it, to simulate a spacer the size of the armature, I inserted the holder with brush, and pressed, using my digital micrometer to measure how much excess the holder's butt stuck out the back.

Transferring that measurement to the brush tip, I used the micrometer to mark the brush sidewall with an indentation. The brush is very soft material, a lot softer than copper.

I then taped the 1 foot long piece of fabric sandpaper to the micrometer case with a little more duct tape (gorilla!), and sanded the brushes down one at a time. It created a lot of dust!

I then used a fine file to clean up the end and make sure it was fairly flat.

Then reinstalled each brush holder and brush, against the pill bottle, bending the tongue back up the same amount as before, to hold the brush holder in place.

Later, I transferred the holder bracket with brushes, onto the armature, put the armature back into place, and reassembled the starter.

Then the next morning, we took the starter to the vehicle, and installed it. Also drained out the excess oil, and had already tightened the oil filter properly.

Owner started, drove the vehicle, restarted it a few times. Full power starting, no sluggishness.

Brush kit:68-8312
• 12 Volt, Field
• Mando, Mitsubishi PMGR Starters
• 100% New WAIglobal
Notes - For 15mm L version use 68-8312-1. Used w/68-8315 brush.
Replaces - Ford E92Z-11057-A, Mazda F214-18-X66, JF01-18-X66, JF01-18-X66A, N326-18-X66, Mitsubishi M647C00271, M647C00571, M647X02071, M647X02371, Mitsubishi Motors MD611216, MD611522, MD618659, Nissan, Infiniti 23380-30R10, 23380-42L70, 23380-K9160, Subaru 23379-AA000, Suzuki 31131-86030
 
Attached Thumbnails Starter Cross-compatibility 3.0L?-20171128_164406.jpg   Starter Cross-compatibility 3.0L?-20171129_194154.jpg  

Last edited by John M; 11-30-2017 at 04:15 PM.
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